Delta 56 Severe Turbulence
08-01-2025 | 06:05 AM
#41
Respek
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,915
Likes: 62
Throughout my career, not just at Delta, I've always thought that there are about one third of pilots who do not take weather seriously enough. They act like you score points or something by deviating as less as possible. Its the type who's answer to everything at all times is "**shrug** we'll pick our way through."
There are also pilots who just aren't paying attention and flying with the radar off.
There are also pilots who just aren't paying attention and flying with the radar off.
08-01-2025 | 06:16 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,230
Likes: 678
From: ir.delta.com
Cant agree with this enough, I’ve never understood this but after coming to Delta I see why. Our dispatchers consistently push us through weather with the backing of “meteorology” and it’s up to us to just say NO. The stories I could share but won’t… needless to say if there’s any mentoring I do with FO’s it’s on this topic.
Last edited by notEnuf; 08-01-2025 at 06:28 AM.
08-01-2025 | 06:37 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 56
First off…I rather have an FO that want to clear a wx by 80 miles (that will only consume about 100-200lbs more of gas) vs the one that wants to only deviate 5-10 miles and I have to explain them why we should keep going more to the left/right of the WX.
You’re supposed to be min 25 miles between cells and if you’re going above 5,000 ft. Couple of weeks ago I almost had to use emergency authority, because dispatch gave us a route, ATC changed it for one that goes into the WX and then they didn’t wanted us to deviate the way we wanted.
”there’s arrival traffic”…that’s none of my problem, I can’t deviate right because there’s a line of TStorms. Eventually we got what we wanted. We gotta start thinking that we have pax and FAs in the back walking even if you tell them to stay seated.
If I see blue skies…that’s where I’m going, that’s what I’m getting payed for and fuel is not an issue.
You’re supposed to be min 25 miles between cells and if you’re going above 5,000 ft. Couple of weeks ago I almost had to use emergency authority, because dispatch gave us a route, ATC changed it for one that goes into the WX and then they didn’t wanted us to deviate the way we wanted.
”there’s arrival traffic”…that’s none of my problem, I can’t deviate right because there’s a line of TStorms. Eventually we got what we wanted. We gotta start thinking that we have pax and FAs in the back walking even if you tell them to stay seated.
If I see blue skies…that’s where I’m going, that’s what I’m getting payed for and fuel is not an issue.
08-01-2025 | 06:59 AM
#44
Back on Reserve
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 842
Likes: 23
For those who have not done augmented ops recently, standard practice is that the RP goes on first break, Landing pilot second, and PM-for-landing third.
Current policy is that if you start in a seat, you finish in that seat. There was a time when, on the CA's leg, the RP(FO) and PM-for-landing(FO) would switch rolls after the breaks (i.e. third-break pilot would simply become RP for landing), but FAR 117 (break requirements) and company policy has eliminated that practice.
08-01-2025 | 07:01 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 188
Couple of questions/thoughts. Were they at least 5000' above the tops? Am I the only one that will deviate 1NM for every knot of wind, when downwind? Who would've been on break on a 3 man crew at this point? Does the Capt ever take first break? Does anyone else check the gain, go manual gain to 100% to get a look? I have always felt that our training on radar usage was weak.
08-01-2025 | 07:11 AM
#46
weekends off? Nope...
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,409
Likes: 136
We recently had to let a new Captain go because he flew through weather similar to this. In the investigation it was revealed that he told the FO that “if the company wants us to fly around the weather, they would have filed us that way”. Sadly, some of the quick upgrade, lesser experienced pilots have a different mentality. Perhaps the “we gotta get there” mentality is more prevalent in our industry than it used to be. I know some regionals push guys pretty hard, and perhaps that mentality is hard to change when they get here? As some have stated, it’s not a failure to avoid weather, burn fuel, add time to the trip etc. It’s what we are paid to do, in many cases.
08-01-2025 | 07:18 AM
#47
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,888
Likes: 684
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Throughout my career, not just at Delta, I've always thought that there are about one third of pilots who do not take weather seriously enough. They act like you score points or something by deviating as less as possible. Its the type who's answer to everything at all times is "**shrug** we'll pick our way through."
I have flown with plenty of people who are scared of anything on the radar. I recently flew with an FO who wanted to clear a cell by 80 miles! Perhaps it was years of flying on the east coast with restricted airspace, but sometimes you do need to pick your way through a line of weather stretching from the Gulf to the Great Lakes. Not all radar returns are convective cells, and it does take some experience.
But those things can be unpredictable, so best to give it a wide berth when you can.
It's called a sucker hole for a reason.
A common thing I have seen with those pilots is failing to take the winds into account. When they are going between cells, they try to go right in the middle of them. I would rather be 20 miles away from the downwind cell and 10 miles from the upwind cell rather than 15 miles from both.
08-01-2025 | 07:22 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,800
Likes: 22
From: 330 B
We recently had to let a new Captain go because he flew through weather similar to this. In the investigation it was revealed that he told the FO that “if the company wants us to fly around the weather, they would have filed us that way”. Sadly, some of the quick upgrade, lesser experienced pilots have a different mentality. Perhaps the “we gotta get there” mentality is more prevalent in our industry than it used to be. I know some regionals push guys pretty hard, and perhaps that mentality is hard to change when they get here? As some have stated, it’s not a failure to avoid weather, burn fuel, add time to the trip etc. It’s what we are paid to do, in many cases.
08-01-2025 | 07:27 AM
#49
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 256
Likes: 75
08-01-2025 | 07:29 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,531
Likes: 497
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