23.M.7/Auto Accept thread drift.
08-13-2025 | 07:37 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2013
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Of course more than one thing can be true at once. Pilots who use auto-accept are playing by the rules, while management is often not. That part is simple. If you don’t like the rules, then write your reps and fill out the upcoming C26 survey to request a change. Nothing is truly “wrong” if it’s done in accordance with the PWA.
Management is frequently using 23M7 outside of 8 hours, not logging 23M7 incidents as required, along with numerous other routine PWA violations.
Management is frequently using 23M7 outside of 8 hours, not logging 23M7 incidents as required, along with numerous other routine PWA violations.
08-13-2025 | 07:50 AM
#32
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Joined: Jul 2006
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It's not that simple. I absolutely do not agree with batch size agreement. We effectively solved a company problem (batch size violations) by agreeing to a pinky promise. The problem, however, stemmed from the grievance. We filed a grievance because we were claiming that the 23M7 usage was violating past precedent. The company came back with this settlement offer and our options were effectively to withdraw the grievance, accept the settlement or take it to arbitration where we were certain to lose. The widespread usage of 23M7 doesn't just negatively impact a "vocal minority." It completely upends the seniority system in favor of a FCFS system which primarily benefits super junior pilots and super senior pilots.
Ya, we could have just done nothing and let it play out. I was was middle of the pack then and while not ideal, there was no shortage of premium available. We let a little bit of short term pain get in the way. No we're back in the same position, with a broken pinky promise and no batch sizes.
08-13-2025 | 07:52 AM
#33
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They are sometimes using it outside 8 hours but they are using it a lot within 8 hours and that usage is complaint but it still harms a lot of the list. To just throw your hands in the air and say "auto accept has no role" in them using it is incorrect. We are both engaging in the old cold war mentality of MAD.
They succeeded with that the first time around with the batch size settlement. We can’t let it happen a second time. The issues with our PWA coverage rules are very valuable in section 6 if managed by ALPA appropriately.
It’s not mutually assured destruction when one side is using a pistol, and the other side has a nuke.
08-13-2025 | 08:11 AM
#34
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That’s costing the company triple pay per trip. Management would love nothing more than to get pilots / ALPA distracted by the “it’s abrogating seniority” facade again, resulting in the surrender of very valuable bargaining power for free.
They succeeded with that the first time around with the batch size settlement. We can’t let it happen a second time. The issues with our PWA coverage rules are very valuable in section 6 if managed by ALPA appropriately.
It’s not mutually assured destruction when one side is using a pistol, and the other side has a nuke.
They succeeded with that the first time around with the batch size settlement. We can’t let it happen a second time. The issues with our PWA coverage rules are very valuable in section 6 if managed by ALPA appropriately.
It’s not mutually assured destruction when one side is using a pistol, and the other side has a nuke.
08-13-2025 | 08:12 AM
#35
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2014
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From: MD88
It probably those darn in base domicile pilots trying to keep the good trips away from commuters by delaying awards to the point commuters can’t get there…. 😁🫣
08-13-2025 | 08:21 AM
#36
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I'm not arguing we should solve their problems. I'm pointing out that there is a problem. I'm also less interested in the company paying triple pay to the wrong people than I am with them paying double pay to the right person. I'm not saying we give away the farm to do it or anything at all. But we can also acknowledge that pilots are being harmed.
The company would love nothing more than to make their problem look like our problem. For us, it’s minimal short term pain for long term gain. For the company, it’s a massive, unsustainable cost and operational issue. It becomes even more unsustainable after we eventually get automated enforcement up and running. Time is on our side here.
08-13-2025 | 09:10 AM
#37
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2006
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Sure, but my experience mirrors what crewdawg posted above. Whenever 23M7 has run rampant in my category, I’ve had little trouble finding a premium trip or two somewhere in the month — even as a mid-seniority commuter.
The company would love nothing more than to make their problem look like our problem. For us, it’s minimal short term pain for long term gain. For the company, it’s a massive, unsustainable cost and operational issue. It becomes even more unsustainable after we eventually get automated enforcement up and running. Time is on our side here.
The company would love nothing more than to make their problem look like our problem. For us, it’s minimal short term pain for long term gain. For the company, it’s a massive, unsustainable cost and operational issue. It becomes even more unsustainable after we eventually get automated enforcement up and running. Time is on our side here.
08-13-2025 | 10:00 AM
#38
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
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From: N60.4858 W149.9327
The regional and LCC I was at before both offered some type of alert system when things dropped into open time during my reserve window, or however you wanted to set up your alerts. I also find myself refreshing open time to see if a possible assignment is headed my way. Would it be difficult for the company to set up email, text or micrew customizable alerts?
FLICA has this feature. I believe at American their union has a feature that sends out email alerts. Can't be that hard to incorporate.
FLICA has this feature. I believe at American their union has a feature that sends out email alerts. Can't be that hard to incorporate.
08-13-2025 | 10:11 AM
#39
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
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From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Well they probably have WS requests in for the 23m7, but still want GS calls, so blocking ARCOS isn't a good method. I use auto accept at night to avoid calls for trips I won't get. I also use it when I'm flying but I usually bid a specific trip or ratchet down the qualifiers and use auto ack as well. Some people are too lazy to update their auto accept on/off all the time, frankly, I don't blame them. It's a pain to do and the easy button is just to let it ride.
Another thing that would be helpful to to be able to maintain a slip but turn it off/on without deleting it.
Another thing that would be helpful to to be able to maintain a slip but turn it off/on without deleting it.
Last edited by notEnuf; 08-13-2025 at 10:32 AM.
08-13-2025 | 10:47 AM
#40
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Joined: Apr 2014
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If you are the most senior pilot eligible for a trip, auto accept casts the widest net. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't have the intent to acknowledge and fly the trip.
In theory, during a very chaotic month the top pilot ina category can submit a slip with auto accept and just sit back and do nothing. Any time the company uses 23.M.7 he gets paid.
But the part that sucks for most pilots is the guys that can make that 23.M.7 money are the absolute most senior pilots
(That's how I understand it, happy to be corrected)
In theory, during a very chaotic month the top pilot ina category can submit a slip with auto accept and just sit back and do nothing. Any time the company uses 23.M.7 he gets paid.
But the part that sucks for most pilots is the guys that can make that 23.M.7 money are the absolute most senior pilots
(That's how I understand it, happy to be corrected)
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