Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

I'm well aware of that. That wasn't the case years ago where you needed 2 HFs for dispatch into the WATRS (now WATS). It was changed a few years back to allow only 1 HF (most aircraft flying those routes have SATCOM now - not just talking DAL here either).

We meet on regular schedule with the Oceanic Control Centers. All carriers that participate attend. We send an operations rep to these meetings. The info coming out of the last few meetings is that WATS, according to New York Oceanic, will require SATCOM (CPDLC) capability for dispatch on the "L" routes. Without it, you won't be able to dispatch a flight on any WATS route. That's where Oceanic is moving. Not sure when, or if there will be major push back from the air carriers.

It's the shear volume of traffic moving up and down the L routes that is driving this. The HF is antiquated and task centric. It's sufficient for a backup should SATCOM fail enroute. The issue they are having is when that one HF fails. Also, how do you maintain flight control when you can't reach your company? Yes, you might relay POS reports thru someone that has working HF/SATCOM, however if you have a maintenance issue, med emergency, or some other related issue, without your one HF working, you are sort of out of span of control at that time. You might only see one little piece as an operator out there in your limited use you personally have flown. However, NY Oceanic sees thousands of flights over months at a time and they have all the info on what does and does not work out there. Thus the push for them to demand a minimum of SATCOM capability for dispatch onto those routes. It's coming. Again, not sure of the timeline.

Originally Posted by Hotel Kilo

I'm well aware of that. That wasn't the case years ago where you needed 2 HFs for dispatch into the WATRs (now WATs). It was changed a few years back to allow only 1 HF (most aircraft flying those routes have SATCOM now - not just talking DAL here either).

We meet on regular schedule with the Oceanic Control Centers. All carriers that participate attend. We send an operations rep to these meetings. The info coming out of the last few meetings is that WATs, according to New York Oceanic, will require SATCOM (CPDLC) capability for dispatch on the "L" routes. Without it, you won't be able to dispatch a flight on any WATS route. That's where Oceanic is moving. Not sure when, or if there will be major push back from the air carriers.

It's the shear volume of traffic moving up and down the L routes that is driving this. The HF is antiquated and task centric. It's sufficient for a backup should SATCOM fail enroute. The issue they are having is when that one HF radio you have with nothing else, fails. Also, how do you maintain flight control when you can't reach your company? Yes, you might relay POS reports thru someone that has working HF/SATCOM, however if you have a maintenance issue, med emergency, or some other related issue, without your one HF working, you are sort of out of span of control at that time. You might only see one little piece as an operator out there in your limited use you personally have flown. However, NY Oceanic sees thousands of flights over months at a time and they have all the info on what does and does not work out there. Thus the push for them to demand a minimum of SATCOM capability for dispatch onto those routes. It's coming. Again, not sure of the timeline.

Originally Posted by Whoopsmybad

This makes sense from a NY stand point. Last time I was on a WATs route, one of the HF reports we tried to give took over 10 minutes with all the people stepping all over each other.

Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF

Meanwhile our former ETOPS 737-900's were doing PNS and HSV turns out of ATL every day.....Brilliant use of resources!

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Originally Posted by DWC CAP10 USAF

Meanwhile our former ETOPS 737-900's were doing PNS and HSV turns out of ATL every day.....Brilliant use of resources!

Glad the guv-mint is requiring it because Delta apparently wasn't smart enough to figure it out on their own.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I can attest. Most of the time we had no SATCOM on the WATRS routes. But had one every time flying ATL/CHS. Someone somewhere in a cubicle didn't never seemed to plan that right.

Originally Posted by PowderPilot2016

Granted this was 3-4 years ago, but the PowerPoint I had describing the max equipment said no etops but did have satcom.

Originally Posted by PowderPilot2016

Granted this was 3-4 years ago, but the PowerPoint I had describing the max equipment said no etops but did have satcom.

Originally Posted by GogglesPisano

I can attest. Most of the time we had no SATCOM on the WATRS routes. But had one every time flying ATL/CHS. Someone somewhere in a cubicle didn't never seemed to plan that right.