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Schwanker 12-11-2025 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Khantahr (Post 3979488)
That's the point, the only way (without a total coverage rewrite) the company gets away from huge M7 payouts is to get rid of the farmers. They're a problem for both of us until QS come into play, then it's mostly just a company problem. Sell them a solution.

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but would it work to pay all pilots in the affected category a portion of each M7 payment at the end of each month? This would eliminate any 23M7 payment to any OOBWS or anyone else not in the category of the rotation.

Example: a 23M7 payment is due because of a an ATL 320B rotation. All ATL320B pilots share in the 23M7 payout and only ATL320B pilots. To protect seniority, 50% of the total monthly payout could be equal across the entire category, the other 50% could take seniority into account where the #1 guy gets twice the amount as the plug. This would eliminate the incentive for farmers, especially out of base farmers and hopefully lead to less chaos covering trips. Just a thought.

Xray678 12-11-2025 01:21 PM


Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 3979625)
I'm sure I'm missing something here, but would it work to pay all pilots in the affected category a portion of each M7 payment at the end of each month? This would eliminate any 23M7 payment to any OOBWS or anyone else not in the category of the rotation.

Example: a 23M7 payment is due because of a an ATL 320B rotation. All ATL320B pilots share in the 23M7 payout and only ATL320B pilots. To protect seniority, 50% of the total monthly payout could be equal across the entire category, the other 50% could take seniority into account where the #1 guy gets twice the amount as the plug. This would eliminate the incentive for farmers, especially out of base farmers and hopefully lead to less chaos covering trips. Just a thought.

I am very senior and I think this is reasonable. When the company starts to blow off seniority every pilot is harmed.

Frank Grimes 12-11-2025 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by Xray678 (Post 3979497)
a quick answer to a lot of these problems, move OOBWS below GS in the coverage ladder. They could do that tomorrow.

Not that easy, inside 18 hours, that would put OOBWS below Reserve Coverage. I would NOT be for that.

igotgummed 12-11-2025 03:28 PM

Management must love reading this thread and all those eager to throw away parts of the contract. Section 6 right around the corner. Divide and conquer. Been going on for decades. Wake up!

SideStickMonkey 12-11-2025 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by igotgummed (Post 3979690)
Management must love reading this thread and all those eager to throw away parts of the contract. Section 6 right around the corner. Divide and conquer. Been going on for decades. Wake up!

Yes, let’s ignore seniority for another 2+ years.

I personally love my phone ringing 3 times in the middle of the night for an IA that got covered 30 min before the call got to me.

Or we can come up with reasonable solutions that honor seniority and fix the coverage problem.

igotgummed 12-11-2025 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by SideStickMonkey (Post 3979776)
Yes, let’s ignore seniority for another 2+ years.

I personally love my phone ringing 3 times in the middle of the night for an IA that got covered 30 min before the call got to me.

Or we can come up with reasonable solutions that honor seniority and fix the coverage problem.

Ummm……ALPA just did, no?

SideStickMonkey 12-11-2025 07:10 PM


Originally Posted by igotgummed (Post 3979778)
Ummm……ALPA just did, no?

It fixes the IA problem, not the 23M7 problem.

I agree that’s something we fix in Section 6 but now is the time to come up with ideas, write resolutions, and bring those ideas to the MEC/NC.

Schwanker 12-11-2025 07:13 PM


Originally Posted by igotgummed (Post 3979778)
Ummm……ALPA just did, no?

Part of it. Doesn't appear fix the 23M7 due to the farming which seems to be an issue for most. This would help solve that issue. I'd put OBWS lower on the coverage ladder, specifically below GS, in exchange for this.

Frank Grimes 12-11-2025 07:32 PM


Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 3979782)
Part of it. Doesn't appear fix the 23M7 due to the farming which seems to be an issue for most. This would help solve that issue. I'd put OBWS lower on the coverage ladder, specifically below GS, in exchange for this.

That puts it below reserve coverage, nope.

Schwanker 12-11-2025 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by Frank Grimes (Post 3979786)
That puts it below reserve coverage, nope.

Good point


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