Originally Posted by Bigflya (Post 1194802)

OK, first let me get the Jim Cramerisms disclosures out of the way. I am NYC based CP on reserve (always have been). 2008 hire with an MBA and I dont own DAL stock in my charitable trust. I haven't even opened the new TA but got info from various posts and the Charimen's Letter. What does this mean, I've been trained to think like mgmt and know what to pick up on in their press releases. I like our current mgmt team as they have openly disclosed their plan since 2008, and have executed it so far with impressive results. I wont pull any punches but tell it as I see it.

Lesson #1: Any Mgmts stated goal since MBA 101 is to maximize shareholder value, taught from day one and reemphasized daily. This means maximize profit by minimizing costs. Pilots are a cost, period.
Lesson #2: Don't take it personal, its just business.

As a newhire in 2008 the differnet mgmt types came down to newhire indoc and gave their outlook for the future of the co. If you knew what to pick-up on the groundwork was being laid out.

At this time, rumors of a merger with NWA were on the street but these folks were hush. But they were saying things like Dal wants a 100 seat aircraft and there was no reasonable a/c on the mkt to buy. Also, Dal is rapidly exapnding overseas but is weak in Asia and the overlap with their system was negligible. Enter NW's DC-9's (temp fix) and the Narita hub. Deal done.

Next RA and mgmt types state in multiple speeches and investor conferences that Dal will win in NY and that HVC's need the total business class experience. That they need the HVC to have the business class experience from Leg one on their journey. Enter the slot swap, terminal build and more 70 seat two class aircraft. And being a frequent USAir commuter into LGA and seeing the RJ operation there, there was no surprise that 90+ % of the flying went to RJ's. Most city pairs do not support mainline aircraft but do have wealthy HVC's coiming into NYC and beyond and want the FC seat. Anyone not see this coming?

Now we have this TA which is immediately backed up by press releases of a 717 lease from SWA and worse of all the pilot group is thrown out as hinging on the deal. If anyone believes that they are ignorant of big business. Mgmt is trying to tell us thru the media that the 88 717's are hingent on this TA passing. But do you really think SWA (and Boeing) would hinge this deal on the vote of a pilot group who took a BK contract? SWA mgmt has made a strategic plan regarding these aircraft and their future 737 orders and is not going to look back. Since we are one year out from rx the first 717's, I'm sure our mgmt guarenteed SWA mgmt that the deal would be done and divestiture of their jets would be per the contract. Dal has a year to get it done. SWA's stock has been hammered in the mkts for deviating from their business model including operating two aircraft types. They will get rid of these jets and DAL will take them on-time. Kicker: DAL loves getting good jets at cheap prices relative to new aircraft. Will they turn away 88 narrowboby jets they've been seeking since 2008 at a inexpensive price? Of course not, it's just business.

What's next? Dal hurried this deal thru to allow time for more negotiations in case the first (or subsequent deals) fail. They will come back to the table to achieve their goals. They are on a timeline that we now know (mid 2013). New JFK terminal and LGA concourse connection also mid 2013. In my opinion vote no and renegotiate. I'm also a fan of DPA, at least to force a vote and scare ALPA into reform. The fact that Moak was a 7ER guy making about $200k a yr at DAL and last year made $500k at ALPA makes me ill.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1194817)

80's final thought for the night:

There are some nice things in the contract, but much of the rest of the stuff is made to hopefully just barely pass.

If they want my stamp of approval on this thing, the company needs to pony up more cash (not just exchanging profit sharing for pay). Throw some 1's in front of those pay bumps and I'll play along.

Originally Posted by Roadie85 (Post 1194840)

Didn't the pilot group take a hugh paycut compared to the other employee groups at Delta? Looks to me that all the employees will be enjoying profit sharing and pay raises. The problem is the pilots are no where near prebankruptcy rates and everyone else is. We're also allowing more RJ's. The B717's will ensure the parking of a/c on the property, likely larger a/c. One last thought, I want to see the SURVEY results.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1193882)

Send a email to Steve Dickson.

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1194721)

Wow Alfa. Is this an 1113 we are dealing with? Cause you sure sound now just like you did then

F U D fear uncertainty doubt

This TA falls way short. "It does not represent the will of the pilots"
and that is not a quote from me , but my LEC rep. I completely agree.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1194853)

Fear, huh? Let's look at facts:

Airtran: 86 months in negotiations, they voted down a TA and didn't get another contract for about 5 years. They voted down the first TA with Southwest over seniority and just a short time later had to eat a much worse deal.

Continental: 47 months in negotiations

United: 36 months in negotiations

American: 60+ months in negotiations, now in bankruptcy

Airways: Merged in late 2005, now 80 months in negotiations

So what facts do you have to claim I am being fearful? The 29 month figure came from a slide that the NMB Chairwoman presented to the MEC and is posted on the ALPA website and included all the railroads which tend to have shorter negotiations. Why would she put that there? You can ignore facts and history at your own peril. Please don't tell me that we are going to bet our careers based on the advice of some internet blowhard. At least do some basic research first.

Originally Posted by Elvis90 (Post 1194864)

As a company, Delta is exceeding all of the above airlines in its business plan and profits. In order to continue its path of success, it will need the help of its pilots, it's only unionized workforce. Delta's labor relations have been better than all the aforementioned airlines with the exception of SWA historically.

Another fact is C2K was the result of a threatened strike that never happened. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I wasn't there, but from what I've read, in April 2000 the union voted to strike...one week before the strike was to take place, management gave in.

Success involve risk (a.k.a. 'peril').