Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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The same way they can bring the 717's on property is the same way they can bring 70 seaters on.

Don't forget. It's not ours to take, It's ours to take back.

We need to ask ourselves. Was 70 seat flying borrowed from us, or did we give it away forever.

If we gave it away forever, why even mess around with limits?

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/.../DC9-10nwa.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/...DC-9-10dal.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1196809)

Then go do it gloopy. Make it happen. I'll wait. It shouldn't take long since it's so simple. ;)

You're right, DL doesn't have the infrastructure, know how, money or resources to pull off a new fleet type the size of a DC9 with mainline CASM.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

No Carl, what you don't like is that I have facts to counter your incessant blathering.

Now get one thing straight. I work for Delta Air Lines just like you do. I get my paycheck from Delta Air Lines just like you do. I don't work for you or any other pilot, so don't give me the "I'm your boss and don't get uppity with me" routine. You are not my boss. Sometimes, the union rents my time from the company and repays them for my time. I wouldn't care a whit if that never happened ever again. People asked for my help and I gave it. I have a lucrative side business that I set aside to do this work.

I was away from home constantly for months. At the beginning of this project my wife snapped her ankle in half slipping on an icy porch. I have been trying to balance this project and also take care of my family and mostly my family got short shrift. That is pretty tough to live with.

Some people decided to sacrifice their lives to work on behalf of 12,000 pilots and some people decided to sit on the sidelines and do nothing but throw rocks. Try for once to saddle up and put the lives of 12,000 pilots and their families in your hands and see what is more stressful, the life of the combatant or the life of the armchair quarterback. Wouldn't it be easy if we could just make silly demands like you recommend and have management accept them all. In that world girls fly little pink ponies around Candy Cane city. In the real world it doesn't work like that.

I don't loathe pilots, only bitter, old Red Book warriors that spend their lives wallowing in their bile.

You are absolutely what is wrong with ALPA at Delta and exactly what I told the guy who gave us the new-hire briefing here at Delta was wrong with ALPA 18 months ago. You guys covet your GD positions of "authority" over the pilots. You claim to know so much - but you really don't. You're kept in a half dark truth by management that you claim is real by using your fancy spreadsheets and claiming to have ex post facto data to prove your point. But you know what your problem is? You're out of touch! I ran a committee from the road with 8 days off a month. No office time. No face time and cocktail shrimp with management. 90+ hours of flying a month and my pathetic Palm Treo and crummy ALPA laptop. That was it. No life, no friends. Just my work. You should have given up long ago. Your wife and the litany of other pity parties that the MEC and Negotiating Committee came up with to rationalize wrapping this deal up early are exactly what caused the release of this substandard product. This goes for all of you. You're all on notice. I won't hesitate to recall any of you. I won't hesitate to step up and take your job because I AM willing to work for Delta PILOTS. I already work for Delta MANAGEMENT but I certainly wouldn't be afraid to truly constructively engage them.

You'll make a fine Flight Ops Manager in ATL someday. Hope your wife's ankle is feeling better. Get back to work and stay off these boards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1196812)

I agree. I would love to see that. Unfortunately, I haven't heard a solid plan of how to do that.

I have to admit that I am intrigued by the idea of a block hour ratio that sets a falling (only) floor of how much we can outsource.

Currently DCI does nearly half of our domestic lift. This proposal will significantly shift flying to mainline. That shift will be permanent. Additionally, we will have gained JV protection and many other incremental gains. None of it is sexy, but when you take the whole package, it is something that needs to be considered very carefully.

Anyone that is dismissing this agreement without a serious look is doing themselves a disservice. If we ultimately decide as a group to shoot this thing down, then great. As long as the decision is made on facts and logical analysis of the TA I'm fine with it. Let's just make sure we are making the best decision we can, without letting our pride or emotions getting mixed in.

Leine,

What are your thoughts about this TA making the RAH scope abuse part of our section 1...thus it won't be an abuse anymore. It will be part of the way DAL does business. Thoughts?

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1196812)

I agree. I would love to see that. Unfortunately, I haven't heard a solid plan of how to do that.

Here's a re-print of a thought I posted on the subject yesterday:

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1195873)

I think this is part of what is frustrating, This doesn't take a whole lot of imagination:

* Delta management want's more cheap flying 70 seaters.
* We want to fly 70 seaters.
* Somehow there is also a provision in the TA that provides for 35% of new hires to come from DCI carriers.

Why not let the company have the 70 seaters operated under whatever DCI carriers workrules and pay they want for 3 years, then have those pilots and planes come under the Delta banner/certificate for bidding by all Delta pilots afterwards?

Then you would probably have a slam dunk passage for the TA -- even with all the other sore spots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeineLodge (Post 1196792)

...the bolded part above prevents the loophole that you were suggesting. Thanks for engaging in the conversation though. You made me go re-read that section, which is a good thing! :eek:

I'm still curious if the other loophole is covered? The one where Delta needs to park planes for non-compliance, so they just park old 50s that they planned on parking anyway?

Does the TA say which DCI aircraft (50 or 90) must be parked in the 60 day non-compliance window?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1196814)

You're right, DL doesn't have the infrastructure, know how, money or resources to pull off a new fleet type the size of a DC9 with mainline CASM.

I never said DAL didn't. But not one person who wants to fully recapture flying has produced a logical, structured plan to do so. If it was as easy as walking in and taking it back, don't you think it'd be done already?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29 (Post 1196820)

Well we have to start out by not outsourcing more of them. I think that would be a good step 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1196823)

Well we have to start out by not outsourcing more of them. I think that would be a good step 1.

Ok. What's Step 2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Then go do it gloopy. Make it happen. I'll wait. It shouldn't take long since it's so simple. ;)

Dude. Google "add aircraft to air carrier". It's the first link that pops up. Complete form. Submit form. Oh that's right Delta offered the management guy who knew how to do this an early out and never replaced him. ;)