Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-25-2012 | 06:41 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Fellas,
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
05-25-2012 | 06:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: NYC 320B
Correct. and to go further, the refinery deal reduces our exposure to price fluctuations since we only "own" the oil while it is in our refinery. As it goes out the door we use the products in exchange for products ... so a gallon is a gallon, not denominated in a dollar denominated "price."
In addition the writer (ie shill for the speculators that he wishes he was) ignores the fact that the additional buyers in the market move the market in one direction only.
But hey, at least he was flying Delta. Welcome aboard!
In addition the writer (ie shill for the speculators that he wishes he was) ignores the fact that the additional buyers in the market move the market in one direction only.
But hey, at least he was flying Delta. Welcome aboard!
05-25-2012 | 06:43 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 66
I need ten characters
To start, my biggest hang up with this TA is scope. I have a few questions that may be unanswerable.
1. What's the hurry? I can't imagine that there is some kind of uber secret plan in the works that requires an immediate signing of the TA. Time is a very strong negotiating tool and it appears that we are allowing this to be used against us rather than in our favor.
2. Why 717? From the rumors this deal as been in the making for a long time. I am certain the official announcement was strategically timed to come out when it did. Plus, we're looking at 88 jets that are more than likely replacement aircraft. This isn't a fleet that lends much potential in organic growth. 88 jets isn't an effective replacement or addition and the only real way to gain any more is through a merger. We can't simply order more from Boeing.
3. Why 76 seat jets? Economically they are better than the 50 seat jet. They're better, but they aren't good. I don't think anyone would ever try to start a stand alone airline with a 76 seat jet. I don't know the exact metrics, but would imagine Delta is basically subsidizing these aircraft and reducing their losses by pitching the regionals against each other.
4. Why not a new 100 seat jet? If we really need a magical 100 seat jet, why don't we work a deal for the C series that relieves us of the 50 seat lease burdens? That is going to be the next carrot with a possible WB order that will get the required votes to pass. I think sailing or slow eluded to carrots a few days ago. I don't think the 717 was the main course, just an appetizer.
There are always other options and I don't see why we have to concede scope. Some may look at Section 1 and say it is better, but we're still giving away jobs. Something about this TA just doesn't sit right with me.
1. What's the hurry? I can't imagine that there is some kind of uber secret plan in the works that requires an immediate signing of the TA. Time is a very strong negotiating tool and it appears that we are allowing this to be used against us rather than in our favor.
2. Why 717? From the rumors this deal as been in the making for a long time. I am certain the official announcement was strategically timed to come out when it did. Plus, we're looking at 88 jets that are more than likely replacement aircraft. This isn't a fleet that lends much potential in organic growth. 88 jets isn't an effective replacement or addition and the only real way to gain any more is through a merger. We can't simply order more from Boeing.
3. Why 76 seat jets? Economically they are better than the 50 seat jet. They're better, but they aren't good. I don't think anyone would ever try to start a stand alone airline with a 76 seat jet. I don't know the exact metrics, but would imagine Delta is basically subsidizing these aircraft and reducing their losses by pitching the regionals against each other.
4. Why not a new 100 seat jet? If we really need a magical 100 seat jet, why don't we work a deal for the C series that relieves us of the 50 seat lease burdens? That is going to be the next carrot with a possible WB order that will get the required votes to pass. I think sailing or slow eluded to carrots a few days ago. I don't think the 717 was the main course, just an appetizer.
There are always other options and I don't see why we have to concede scope. Some may look at Section 1 and say it is better, but we're still giving away jobs. Something about this TA just doesn't sit right with me.
05-25-2012 | 06:48 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Fellas,
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
05-25-2012 | 06:49 AM
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 0
From: MSP7ERB
Thinking about the oil refinery deal just reminded me that RA is a really smart guy. Delta pilots respect how smart RA is; I hope RA respects the intelligence of the Delta pilot group as well, especially as we evaluate this TA.
05-25-2012 | 06:50 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
05-25-2012 | 06:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
From: NYC 320B
05-25-2012 | 07:07 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,876
Likes: 193
Fellas,
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
I am trying to figure out a couple of figures.
1) How many new hires are spawned from the 717s
2) Does anybody have an idea how many might take the early retirement?
These numbers are surely just estimates, but it could be the official start of upward movement. The system has been gummed up for quite some time. The real pay raise is the move from the right window to the left window. This cannot happen until we retire/hire folks.
Basically the work rule changes in the contract will be neutral to minus a few jobs. Less then 300. Its hard to place a exact number. The two biggest drivers are ALV plus 15 and 84 hours. Both are offset in other areas to a extant. The max threshold value in PBS can only go up 1 hour and the ALV is offset by 6 more X days per year and counting vacation, training and mil leave against the reserve max.
The 717's are planned as growth airframes. The remaining DC9's will be offset by MD90's still to come online. He also had some interesting comments on the purchase and choice. Delta looked at the A319 but would get caught in the same thing they did with the MD90. We paid triple the price for the last MD90 verses the first ones. Once the market realizes you want a airframe the prices rises rapidly. The A319's were in small buckets and would have faced the same issues as the 90's. The 717 got the nod because it was one complete package. We were also not the only party looking at the 717's which may explain partly why managment wants such as quick deal.
If we lose 300 jobs to workrules the 717's will add just over 1000 jobs. The ER program should offset the 300 work rule losses and 300 is the number they are targeting. The problem is the ER gains are very temporary since they would have retired anyway at some point.
05-25-2012 | 07:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
05-25-2012 | 07:15 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
Like any carrier in endless growth mode though, they will try it again eventually. So will VX and others. The question now is will DL do another massive seat dump in the era of "capaticy dicipline" or will DL pull down even more capacity in an unsustainable attempt to preserve RASM like we've been doing?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
