Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-28-2012, 02:33 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
Spreadsheets and graphs.. tears come to my eyes. 
05-28-2012, 02:38 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by MrBojangles
Why would Delta do this:
Pinnacle agreed to waive certain reset rights that would have included higher rates to cover increasing pilot costs in agreements covering the operation of 142 Bombardier CRJ200s and 41 CRJ900s. The carrier also agreed to a modified margin covering the CRJ200 operations. Pinnacle determined the CRJ200s it operates on behalf of Delta produce profits. The carrier bears no ownership costs on those aircraft since it leases the small jets from Delta.
Delta has agreed to extend Pinnacle’s CRJ200 contract by four and a half years, which means it will be saddled with 145 50-seaters that it takes great pains to declare are uneconomical until 2022. Delta does have the right to file an unsecured claim for damages related to an early termination of the operation of the 16 CRJ900s that will span five months beginning in Jan-2013. Pinnacle had been attempting to rework that particular contract after Mr Menke, who took the helm at the carrier in Jun-2011, concluded the agreement was producing marginal economics for Pinnacle.
This took place with the DIP financing recently.
Pinnacle agreed to waive certain reset rights that would have included higher rates to cover increasing pilot costs in agreements covering the operation of 142 Bombardier CRJ200s and 41 CRJ900s. The carrier also agreed to a modified margin covering the CRJ200 operations. Pinnacle determined the CRJ200s it operates on behalf of Delta produce profits. The carrier bears no ownership costs on those aircraft since it leases the small jets from Delta.
Delta has agreed to extend Pinnacle’s CRJ200 contract by four and a half years, which means it will be saddled with 145 50-seaters that it takes great pains to declare are uneconomical until 2022. Delta does have the right to file an unsecured claim for damages related to an early termination of the operation of the 16 CRJ900s that will span five months beginning in Jan-2013. Pinnacle had been attempting to rework that particular contract after Mr Menke, who took the helm at the carrier in Jun-2011, concluded the agreement was producing marginal economics for Pinnacle.
This took place with the DIP financing recently.
05-28-2012, 02:44 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by JobHopper
Read my post on the definition of "established."
05-28-2012, 02:45 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
A few months ago I said I would agree to a 20 percent raise up front with COLA every year while keeping everything else status quo. I was crucified on this board for having too low of standards. Our current TA is nowhere near that. I am a no vote. I am amazed how many pilots are defending this TA.
05-28-2012, 02:46 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
wrt the chart, ALL of 'em should pay the 737-800 rate. Then who cares what airplanes the company buys? They buy.. we fly.
05-28-2012, 02:53 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 758
Originally Posted by tsquare
wrt the chart, ALL of 'em should pay the 737-800 rate. Then who cares what airplanes the company buys? They buy.. we fly.
05-28-2012, 02:56 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by slowplay
One of the advantages of working for a large union is that your E&FA department gets to look at 37 different airlines and their internal numbers. While they are bound by confidentiality agreements they can quickly tell which carriers are out of the norm. ALPA also has copies of all the DCI (and many other regionals)ASA agreements and can match the numbers from the agreements with data provided by management. Lastly, most of the regionals are publicly traded companies (Trans States excepted) and have SEC reporting requirements. Those are yet another crosscheck.
In all honesty ALPA doesn't rely just on management's numbers.
In all honesty ALPA doesn't rely just on management's numbers.
I am surprised that United/Continental looked at those same numbers and decided to pursue 100% scope though. I know you will say look how well they are doing but they are not very happy with us right now because we are cutting the legs out from under them. Perhaps we are using USAPA's numbers in our computations
.The numbers being quoted by FTB are from the Form 41 data which you say you use as a crosscheck. I will grant that the numbers presented are not correct due to the fact that many of the cost are hidden by reimbursement cost as well as the fact that Delta directly covers the cost of most of the handling and servicing of the aircraft and passengers. Delta also pays a operating margin to the DCI carriers which is very hard to quantify into hourly cost of the outsourced aircraft.
The direct cost of the Pilot, FAs, and mechanics are the only true savings and there is money to be had in the scale of operation at Delta as well as the in operating margins paid to the DCI carriers. It will cost Delta more money but it's not an unthinkable or impossible amount.
05-28-2012, 03:07 PM
Get's Every Day Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 1,859
Originally Posted by hockeypilot44
I would like to apologize to all active and former military servicemen. I was responding to Carl's post accusing the junior pilots as the one's that will vote yes to this. I took offense to that and responded in an inappropriate manner. I made this post sometime last week. It was a cheap shot at senior pilots. I threw the military comment in there because almost all of our senior pilots have some military affiliation. The airline used to hire almost all military while the pilots hired in the last few years are almost all civilian. My comment about not thinking for themselves came from the fact that a TA has never been voted down. I know this does not make my comment any better. I am sorry. I did not realize that one comment would offend so many people. Thank you guys and girls for defending our country.
05-28-2012, 03:27 PM
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Nice while it lasted
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by tsquare
Where is it. I'm not gonna go searching for it. I am guessing it is your opinion based on conjecture, so I am only mildly interested.
I became intimately aware how a single word in a legal document can change everything during my divorce some years back.
This TA says the 76 seaters can come aboard when the company "...establishes a fleet..." What is the LEGAL definition of "establish"? I don't know (not a lawyer), but here' one I plucked from a regular dictionary: "set up (an organization, system, or set of rules) on a firm or permanent basis".
SET UP on a permanent basis. Not take delivery, not have on property, not operating. Setting up. So here's what I think this TA allows the company to do: announce the leasing of all 88 717s, thus "setting up" a new mainline fleet size. Then announce a buy order for every one of those 76 seaters, now allowed by the newly "established" mainline fleet size. All this to be followed by the parking plan for the -9s and (my guess) additional older aircraft the company doesn't want to keep but haven't told us yet. Does anyone really think the company wants to expand its narrowbody fleet some 70 airframes?
Once those 76ers are on order, they're here to stay. Rationalizing the RJ fleet size under the ratios won't come until sometime in 2014; our orders start trickling in in 2013. I personally don't believe this TA will trigger the left seat opportunities that some have touted. In fact, in terms of upgrade, I don't think it is a nail in the coffin - I think it is 70 nails in the coffin.
I don't trust the company to do right by us. This TA shows how little they value our contributions, and ALPA certainly seems OK with that notion. I have no idea if my scenario will come to fruition, but I hope no one is surprised if it does. One word - establish - appears to throw that door wide open.
05-28-2012, 03:55 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by slowplay
And with your suggestion how do you get DCI to break their current contracts?
Last edited by vprMatrix; 05-28-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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