Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-28-2012, 10:05 AM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by slowplay
Your statement is not correct.
This TA takes the ratio of mainline-DCI domestic equivalent block hours from its current 1.19-1 to a minimum of 1.56-1. That's a lot more of Delta branded flying being flown by Delta pilots. That's scope value.
This TA takes the ratio of mainline-DCI domestic equivalent block hours from its current 1.19-1 to a minimum of 1.56-1. That's a lot more of Delta branded flying being flown by Delta pilots. That's scope value.
Everyone should understand that language read through the eyes of hope and optimism for your career, is far different than the actual reality of that language as interpreted and implemented by a management team with totally different priorities.
Carl
05-28-2012, 10:08 AM
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Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
It does no such thing. It does NOTHING but outline a plan...and it does so with legally unenforceable language. Language that would probably not even be grieved by DALPA if the RJ airline affected had ALPA pilots.
Everyone should understand that language read through the eyes of hope and optimism for your career, is far different than the actual reality of that language as interpreted and implemented by a management team with totally different priorities.
Carl
Everyone should understand that language read through the eyes of hope and optimism for your career, is far different than the actual reality of that language as interpreted and implemented by a management team with totally different priorities.
Carl
05-28-2012, 10:10 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Nice while it lasted
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by slowplay
Your statement is not correct.
This TA takes the ratio of mainline-DCI domestic equivalent block hours from its current 1.19-1 to a minimum of 1.56-1. That's a lot more of Delta branded flying being flown by Delta pilots. That's scope value.
This TA takes the ratio of mainline-DCI domestic equivalent block hours from its current 1.19-1 to a minimum of 1.56-1. That's a lot more of Delta branded flying being flown by Delta pilots. That's scope value.
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
The way I read it, this TA would improve, but not fix, our concerns with scope. There would be more Delta Captain positions with it than without. Probably about 400.
You see something else?
You see something else?
Slow is correct the ratios will drive more mainline flying. More work = more money. But that is Section 3 (Compensation) value, not scope value. The TA caps the number of 50 seaters, aircraft which would never have flown here, regardless. The aircraft which could be flown here (in my opinion, should be flown here) are permanantly assigned to the RJ fleets.
When I got hired at NWA, the DC-9 fleet all by itself (204 planes) was the 4th largest airline in the country. 225 DC-9-10 size aircraft, permanently off property assigned to Delta flying. Does anyone grasp how big that is?
There's your scope value.
Bar, you're way better at numbers than I am. If I am off base about 400 captain slots, please correct me.
05-28-2012, 10:21 AM
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Position: 747-400 Captain
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Originally Posted by JobHopper
You are working on the assumption that the mailnline fleet size will grow; I am assuming it will not. Everything the company has done post-merger has been static growth, if not backwards. Did I miss a philosophy change somewhere? I think the 717s will be offset with additional aircraft retirements; we just haven't been told yet. Believe me, I would love to be 100% wrong on that one.
Slow is correct the ratios will drive more mainline flying. More work = more money. But that is Section 3 (Compensation) value, not scope value. The TA caps the number of 50 seaters, aircraft which would never have flown here, regardless. The aircraft which could be flown here (in my opinion, should be flown here) are permanantly assigned to the RJ fleets.
When I got hired at NWA, the DC-9 fleet all by itself (204 planes) was the 4th largest airline in the country. 225 DC-9-10 size aircraft, permanently off property assigned to Delta flying. Does anyone grasp how big that is?
There's your scope value.
Bar, you're way better at numbers than I am. If I am off base about 400 captain slots, please correct me.
Slow is correct the ratios will drive more mainline flying. More work = more money. But that is Section 3 (Compensation) value, not scope value. The TA caps the number of 50 seaters, aircraft which would never have flown here, regardless. The aircraft which could be flown here (in my opinion, should be flown here) are permanantly assigned to the RJ fleets.
When I got hired at NWA, the DC-9 fleet all by itself (204 planes) was the 4th largest airline in the country. 225 DC-9-10 size aircraft, permanently off property assigned to Delta flying. Does anyone grasp how big that is?
There's your scope value.
Bar, you're way better at numbers than I am. If I am off base about 400 captain slots, please correct me.
Carl
05-28-2012, 10:24 AM
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
This is such a great and important point.
Carl
Carl
05-28-2012, 10:25 AM
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
Posts: 1,724
Originally Posted by slowplay
What is the current block hour ratio provided in our PWA?
None. The block hour ratio shifts throughout the year. In the wintertime DCI block hours as a percentage of mainline flying tend to go up. The 1.10 is a backstop to normal execution of the business plan should things go poorly for Delta.
And they can't add 10 76 seat RJ until they've added 13 B717.
None. The block hour ratio shifts throughout the year. In the wintertime DCI block hours as a percentage of mainline flying tend to go up. The 1.10 is a backstop to normal execution of the business plan should things go poorly for Delta.
And they can't add 10 76 seat RJ until they've added 13 B717.
Current DCI fleet 598
Current DCI block hour index = 1
Current mainline fleet 618
Current MBH to DBH ratio 1.19 to 1
Endgame DCI fleet 450
Endgame DCI block hour index = 1
Endgame mainline fleet?
Endgame mainline block-hour ratio to DCI block-hour ratio 1.56 to 1
Percentage reduction in DCI fleet 24.7%
If DCI flies a smaller fleet with no reduction in block hours, we haven't really "taken back flying to mainline." All we got is more large DCI jets producing the same number of block hours, generating more ASMs.
We will have modernized and upgauged the DCI fleet, increased DCI ASM production at a lower cost, with a smaller number of jets, but we will not have "reduced DCI flying."
If on the other hand the smaller DCI fleet results in the reduction of block hours at DCI, that will affect the DBH.
If DCI block hours are reduced by 24.7% after all 717 and 76-seaters are delivered, the ratio of 1.56 will result in a guarantee of 2% fewer mainline bloch hours than our current 1.19 ratio produces
Cheers
George
05-28-2012, 10:27 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by JobHopper
You are working on the assumption that the mailnline fleet size will grow; I am assuming it will not. Everything the company has done post-merger has been static growth, if not backwards. Did I miss a philosophy change somewhere? I think the 717s will be offset with additional aircraft retirements; we just haven't been told yet. Believe me, I would love to be 100% wrong on that one.
Slow is correct the ratios will drive more mainline flying. More work = more money. But that is Section 3 (Compensation) value, not scope value. The TA caps the number of 50 seaters, aircraft which would never have flown here, regardless. The aircraft which could be flown here (in my opinion, should be flown here) are permanantly assigned to the RJ fleets.
When I got hired at NWA, the DC-9 fleet all by itself (204 planes) was the 4th largest airline in the country. 225 DC-9-10 size aircraft, permanently off property assigned to Delta flying. Does anyone grasp how big that is?
There's your scope value.
Bar, you're way better at numbers than I am. If I am off base about 400 captain slots, please correct me.
Slow is correct the ratios will drive more mainline flying. More work = more money. But that is Section 3 (Compensation) value, not scope value. The TA caps the number of 50 seaters, aircraft which would never have flown here, regardless. The aircraft which could be flown here (in my opinion, should be flown here) are permanantly assigned to the RJ fleets.
When I got hired at NWA, the DC-9 fleet all by itself (204 planes) was the 4th largest airline in the country. 225 DC-9-10 size aircraft, permanently off property assigned to Delta flying. Does anyone grasp how big that is?
There's your scope value.
Bar, you're way better at numbers than I am. If I am off base about 400 captain slots, please correct me.
05-28-2012, 10:30 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Nice while it lasted
Posts: 326
Originally Posted by tsquare
If he is right and there ARE 400 captains seats... THERE is your scope value.
I should correct this by saying 400 new captain slots, not replacement slots driven by the retirement program and all the other machinations going on here.
Last edited by JobHopper; 05-28-2012 at 10:53 AM. Reason: Afterthought
05-28-2012, 10:39 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by tsquare
If he is right and there ARE 400 captains seats... THERE is your scope value.
05-28-2012, 10:43 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
There's a new negotiator's notepad about scope up on the alpa web site.
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