Restricting the footprint is critical, and we have no protections for that right now.

Once we have put a fence around the DCI pen, we can shrink the pen as the numbers naturally dwindle (if we choose to, and I think most on here do).

I see it as step one in a multi-step game. Shorter contracts allow us to take another "step" in shorter time frames. Waiting for 7 years in between negotiations doesn't help us achieve improvements nearly as often.

Also in 3-6 years there will yet again be some turnover in the LEC's that will put more ex-RJ/currently junior guys in elected roles who see the importance of continuing to improve that area.

I'm less than enamored with other areas of the TA, but scope doesn't bother me. I think the other part of our conversation will start to happen in 2015 if we go with this and go into another round in 2015, but you normally get a massive rejection if you ask for too much all at once (think of it like making out with the girls when you were in high school:D).

I think this TA is going to work out great. Regardless of what is being said on the negative side this TA will pass hands down. As I previously posted, I do believe that all flying will be done by Delta pilots, once Delta management brings on the regional pilots. The guys that keep saying no more outsourcing, bring all flying back to mainline etc......are only thinking about upgrading, better QOL etc....however, you all fail to understand that if my statement does in fact come true, which it looks like it just might, this will do nothing for you personally in the short term. At least for 5 or more years. For those at the regional who keep saying take your flying back, be careful for what you ask for. If I am wrong and Delta does take their flying back without bring the regional pilots with it, that does not guarantee you a job at big D. If you don't make the cut in the interview, which many from the regionals have not, then what are you going to do then?

Wow. Oil has been tanking lately. Even Brent Crude is under $100. :eek:

Maybe it's a conspiracy by RA to make 50 seaters profitable again. :D

Did these men get it right?

Lee Moak
Tim O'Malley
Parri Olmstead
Mike Pinho
Rick Dominguez
Roger White
Rich Harwood
Ken Rogers

Let's not kid ourselves. I undoubtedly left a few names off the list but these are the men who wrote this contract. With stunning speed, the whole intricate (and time consuming) "process" was circumvented.

When we cast our vote the question we need to answer is do we trust the judgment of the handful of people who brought us this contract? This is not the contract the pilots wanted and it is not the contract the MEC wanted.
This was done by a very small group of people who decided what they thought was best for Delta Air Lines and the Delta pilots. They largely disregarded the survey, excluded the elected reps and cut a deal. They then used the powerful machinery at their disposal to get it out to membership ratification. The information and communication resources they control are formidable. They overwhelmed our MEC reps with National's lawyers, economists, political types warning about our chances at the NMB, etc. etc. They are doing the same with the pilot group as a whole.

Make no mistake. These are smart guys. Big picture guys. They've been in power a long time. They are not management but they clearly view themselves as managers of the pilot group. They are pilot advocates and they want everything they can get for the pilots but they also see themselves as responsible for the corporation's health. They believe deeply in the philosophy of labor participation in "corporate governance". They place great value on a pilot member of the board of directors. etc. etc.

I haven't seen the survey but it seems obvious that in many areas these people substituted their judgment for the collective wishes of the pilot group and our elected reps.

On the other hand, "Time value of money" is not just a slogan or cliche. It is real. The dysfunctional, anti-labor NMB is also real. These men made a strategic decision to make an end run around the long, torturous, drawn out NMB negotiation and mediation system that has undeniably been broken for the last decade. That may have been a stroke of brilliance and the best thing that ever happened or it may have cost us hundreds of millions. Would the Railway Labor Act have worked for us or slowly smothered us? That's the decision we have to make. Will we really do better by taking that long road?

It's done. Fait accompli. We have a TA. We are going to vote.
We need to decide -- did these men get it right?

Average reserve at Delta flies 45hrs/month, according to DALPA

I've worked at another airline (one where you got extended every single trip and used basically up to the max limit every month) and I have a problem with this TA's reserve section too. It opens us up to being used like I was at my last airline-which will happen if we run on thin staffing. I know we haven't been used like that in the past or now-but do you want to gamble on that continuing? I don't like the odds-obviously management wants to reduce staffing significantly.

Restricting the footprint is all well and good, but the argument was that the bottom end; 50 seaters, we self restricting. Now we are helping reduce them a few years early. Good or Bad? Unknown, because we are going to allow 70 more jets that will be able to fly 10-15 more years. The next round will go the same. We will still have the 100 seat battle in 2015 or the next round after that; which may be a concessionary round. The retirements will be stacking up and DAL will be squealing for relief in the form of larger jets than we see today. There is a linear line here. We need a one off to change the course.

I do not believe there are any guarantees that will will be able to limit DCI in three or so years. DAL will want the 102 70 seaters to become 76 seat or larger jets. We will be right on the cusp of retirements and they will be able to articulate need. Allowing more viable jets though on a smaller footprint is a way to leave the real debate and fighting to a later date. Will there be any leverage then? More leverage than we have now? I am not too sure. There is more at stake here that redoing RJ leases. This allows debt levels to come down now not in a year and a half. The target levels will be hit, thus allowing DAL to shop. They need this to go with the most preferred route.

Once this consolidation is done, I do not see there being the dual track leverage we have today. The question is, "Is what we see in this TA enough with the leverage we truly have to accept it and the risk of the environment being truly unfavorable or too favorable in 2015 and beyond?"

If this deal is approved, we all move on to the next battle. Good, we need to. We hit 2015 with a pilot group that has more pent up demands than we do today. We have have more frustrations from a SLI etc as well. The pressure cooker is going to demand a quantum leap in the valuation of the PWA. We all can see that. DAL is more than likely not going to want to redo this deal when profits may be double what they are today. A year passes and we get a great deal. One we all love in 2016-17. A year later based on the economic sign wave, we enter a recession.

POS96-anger-C2K-concessions

C2012-anger-C2015-concessions

Right there is my real concern over this deal. At the culmination of the next round of bargaining we will have asked and gotten another contract that significantly goes above the trend line and as a result the wording in this agreement that I do not like; the triggers and non compliance language, really sets us up to repeat 2002-2006. My internal debate on how I vote is significantly weighed on not repeating history and readjusting this deal now, which in turn will adjust the costing projections for the company going forward. It will smooth out the sign wave not yet seen by many and as a result dampen the shock waves we may be subject to by this TA's language and the resultant gains four to five years down the road.

To me this is a strategic exercise.

Today. How about in 2007, 2008, 2010-11 on certain seats?
I know I broke ALV for 18 straight months ending in September of last year.

In 25 years, I have yet to see an acquired airplane get on the line as quickly as projected. Stand by for the flight operations statement that the airplanes are "in worse condition than expected".

That being said, the 717s will provide jobs, and will spur hiring.

Heck, I have no idea. That 45 hour stat was put out by Scrappy at the road show.