Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-07-2012 | 10:27 AM
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Everyone is getting wound up over 66 more airplanes. I like having more airplanes like the next guy, but Crew Resource and Network can barely decide if we're keeping the 19 DC-9s or not. They may have a "plan" for 2015, but it's written in stone just like the 2012 plan was (and changed) and the 2013 plan will be.
09-07-2012 | 10:31 AM
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From: Still in one
!
09-07-2012 | 10:40 AM
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From: Light Chop
It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).
To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...
Everyone is getting wound up over 66 more airplanes. I like having more airplanes like the next guy, but Crew Resource and Network can barely decide if we're keeping the 19 DC-9s or not. They may have a "plan" for 2015, but it's written in stone just like the 2012 plan was (and changed) and the 2013 plan will be.
*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.
09-07-2012 | 10:47 AM
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From: Light Chop
09-07-2012 | 10:52 AM
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Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.
09-07-2012 | 10:53 AM
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From: A-320A
The closest I could come to guessing was Frontier? Srsly? Now you could get to that figure with a literally unlimited combination if you use multipile airlines/fragmentations but HI is too small and AS is too big, VX too small and JB too big. SO what kind of wildcard scenario would it take to add 66 planes from other airline(s)?
We all agreed that some if not many 717's are growth. It may not be all from other airlines, either via used aircraft acquisition or otherwise. My point was that trying to sharp shoot a general number somewhere in 2015(by 2015) is really hard to do. It could be announced orders, unannounced orders, acquisitions et al. Its very vague.
09-07-2012 | 10:58 AM
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From: A-320A
Absent the critical component, the pilot contract, which the company just confirmed, this refleeting wouldn't have happened. Thank goodness most of the Delta pilots didn't have tin hats on, there never is guaranteed growth in any CBA. The contracts can however create the environment for growth, which this one did. Most of us saw that and the reps had the courage to make the right call.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
Keep the "what other airline" cartoon stuff out of it. The company had to acquire 717s or 319 for the Delta pilots with this CBA not some future JCBA, in order to execute on its refleeting plan, which included a rapid and massive reductions of DCI jets in.
With 796 mainline aircraft, the company could have been authorized 240 76-seat jets, thanks to this new contract, they'll only get 223.
It wasn't tin foil hats, it was concern over the vagueness of the commitments. Many that were suspect also stated that if the business plan is moderate plus, the DAL pilots would be pleased.
As to the last part, you are correct and we got aircraft not jet protection at 70 seats and below but the quid was 102 70 seat jets. They would have had to swap those 70's out for those 76 seat jets.
Either way, the vote is long gone, and we have a PWA. Move forward, I have.
09-07-2012 | 10:59 AM
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From: Light Chop
I chose my words carefully.
It limited the possible number of 76-seat aircraft to 223, up from the max of 155 allowed under the old PWA unless we grew massively, but down from 255 which would've been allowed had we (again) grown massively and 70 seaters had been parked along the way.
The rest of what you said is nonsense.
Glad to see that our CBA did limit the number of possible super jumbo 76-seat aircraft and put a limit on the number of 70-seat aircraft. Also good to see that this SEC filing confirms what most Delta pilots understood, we got superior scope and mainline is going to grow thanks to this new contract. Delta pilots will now see a larger share of Delta brand flying, thanks to the pilots who actually understood the dynamics of our scope language.
The rest of what you said is nonsense.
09-07-2012 | 11:02 AM
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From: Light Chop
One way to get to 796 jets, go from 722 - 19 DC9s + 21 MD90s - 16 763 Domestics + 88 717s = 796 jets and a net growth of 628ish seats.
Subject to change before 2015 via merger, acquisitions and changes in the domestic and global economy.
Subject to change before 2015 via merger, acquisitions and changes in the domestic and global economy.
09-07-2012 | 11:11 AM
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From: 767er Captain
Great reporting by the way. Curious about the 2013-2014 hiring.
Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.
Ah, but a merger allows you to do different things with different fleets. After all today we don't have PMDAL plus a PMNWA fleet. You could merge with Alaska, drop their 734s, trade in their 739s, add their 739ER order to ours post trade in, drop something we don't want to keep on our side, etc.
It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).
To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...
circle gets the square.
*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.
Well, ours does guarantee DCI the right to grow from 255 jumbo RJs to 325. So I'd say ours.
Ah, but a merger allows you to do different things with different fleets. After all today we don't have PMDAL plus a PMNWA fleet. You could merge with Alaska, drop their 734s, trade in their 739s, add their 739ER order to ours post trade in, drop something we don't want to keep on our side, etc.
It's one way to get to 796 airplanes with no hiring needed until late 2013 to 2014 (which is what I heard from two separate LCA this week so it's being repeated*).
To use a SWA analogy, there are lots of fun ways to skin a cat, but...
circle gets the square.
*I did also listened in on a conversation a week ago about whether we'd be hiring. The management pilot said simply we're taking steps to move in that direction. for whatever that's worth.
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