Originally Posted by buzzpat

It's almost 100% on the left coast. Cue sailing to tell me why I'm wrong in 3,2,1........

Originally Posted by Scoop

Buzz,

You should know better! We can't grow LAX because we are constrained by gates.

HMMMMM, I guess that did not apply to the Virgin 777 at gate 58 this morning. No wonder we are gate limited - our code-share, JV, and DCI buddies are using them.

Scoop

Originally Posted by Rogue24

Gives more pax access to our flights, allows more flights to be booked by DAL pax(viability of existing routes that otherwise would be marginal), and reduces the need for DAL to take on more debt to serve a marginally logical route that at first whiff of fiscal issues would be dumped and the jets and debt would remain.

Keeps DAL financially strong with the reach and access for revenue without the need for high debt load.

The aviation world is changing and I expect to see these sort of JV's morph over time.

Pilots all want a little boom and and sick of bust. That cannot be discredited.

Originally Posted by Rogue24

I do not see one more daily rt as a "gross windfall" given that the TA includes the ability to include a lot of other flying. (1 N.2)

If anything this forces DAL not to drop the market over whimsical economic forces on a route that has a ton of over capacity. (DAL, VA, Qantas)

Originally Posted by Rogue24

On the AF JV its EASK's . Overall we fly smaller gauge jets. 3 767's to one AF 380. We shrink block hrs more than they do, but we also will grow at a greater rate than they will in a upswing economy. That is the upside we have not seen.

On the V Australia JV, the 21-7 is before 50-50 growth is part of it. They are at 14 weekly rt's. It means they add one more daily rt before they hit that threshold of 50-50. If they go above 14 column B applies and our bottom end threshold applies.(7- not 5) That could be a one extra frequency on day a week to LAX flight to bring them up to 16, not another route. What is the column B weekly avg in the 12 month not 36 month measurement period like the AF JV?

Also note that all growth that V Australia has in the Pacific is included in growth not just mainland US. (very good)

The flexibility initially does not force growth for the Delta Pilots but it does push their pax on our domestic network at a min, and quite possibly our LAX-SYD flight. (not good for DAL pilots and good for sustainability of existing routes)

All growth above 21 in Column A is 50-50 (very good)

They (VA) can pull down frequency and we are not required to pull down frequency or markets like the AF JV (very good with the attacks that Australia is getting from EK. (long term this may be a real big winner for DAL pilots)

This JV gives DAL great incentive to have the revenue flown on their metal unlike the AF JV which is totally metal neutral (good given the size and scope of the JV)

The set up for this JV is not eye watering in the terms of growth, but it will push more pax to our DAL pilot flown flights thus making flights like LAX-SYD more sustainable on the main deck. (good)

It does allow DAL to go to five flights a week if V Australia is at 14 and 4 flights a day under approval, but forces V Australia back to 14 if we go below 7. It is more complicated but read the TA and look at the matrix and read the language of the TA not just the NNP(good and bad)

In the end we are talking about a small JV with the possibility of some growth for the DAL pilots in the future that is equally shared after 7 frequencies are added by V Australia.(one frequency per day) Its not a gigantic deal but it does allow for hard bottom end protections and equal growth going forward. The cure period is 12 months and we are not going to start a new measurement period in March 2013, but conclude one. The measurement period is 12 months not 36. All of these difference need to be noted.

Originally Posted by TenYearsGone

Then we need to have our fair share of flying. Im tired of people accepting our continual and slow shrinkage. There is no way a small, up start airline can have 3x more flying to AUS then us. We are the behemoth, we will do wonders for them, not the other way around.

TEN

Originally Posted by Scoop

Buzz,

You should know better! We can't grow LAX because we are constrained by gates.

HMMMMM, I guess that did not apply to the Virgin 777 at gate 58 this morning. No wonder we are gate limited - our code-share, JV, and DCI buddies are using them.

Scoop

Originally Posted by buzzpat

Yup. I love the fact that we're also allowing Allegiant and Frontier to belly up to the gate bar. We get held out but these other guys get priority.

Originally Posted by gloopy

Yep. And I really hope the rumors of Korean Air snubbing their noses at us and thumping their chests about how they don't feel we should do much if any transpac flying because they deserve it all aren't true. If they are, then we need to go to Japan and tell them to let us into HND big time and we will cut KA off at the knees. I think the Japanese would gladly play ball with us if it meant isolating KA back to third tier irrelevance.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Its 100% true. I can't stand that we codeshare with that train wreck of an airline.