Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1302100)

You know, that gate PA memo really needed to be worded better.

It needed to also tell us what we shouldn't say, eh?

No...

-Cartwheeling ball of flames
-blowed up
-don't know what that is actually
-

Originally Posted by Justdoinmyjob (Post 1302214)

-"So Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"

Originally Posted by Rogue24 (Post 1301554)

On the AF JV its EASK's . Overall we fly smaller gauge jets. 3 767's to one AF 380. We shrink block hrs more than they do, but we also will grow at a greater rate than they will in a upswing economy. That is the upside we have not seen.

On the V Australia JV, the 21-7 is before 50-50 growth is part of it. They are at 14 weekly rt's. It means they add one more daily rt before they hit that threshold of 50-50. If they go above 14 column B applies and our bottom end threshold applies.(7- not 5) That could be a one extra frequency on day a week to LAX flight to bring them up to 16, not another route. What is the column B weekly avg in the 12 month not 36 month measurement period like the AF JV?

Also note that all growth that V Australia has in the Pacific is included in growth not just mainland US. (very good)

The flexibility initially does not force growth for the Delta Pilots but it does push their pax on our domestic network at a min, and quite possibly our LAX-SYD flight. (not good for DAL pilots and good for sustainability of existing routes)

All growth above 21 in Column A is 50-50 (very good)

They (VA) can pull down frequency and we are not required to pull down frequency or markets like the AF JV (very good with the attacks that Australia is getting from EK. (long term this may be a real big winner for DAL pilots)

This JV gives DAL great incentive to have the revenue flown on their metal unlike the AF JV which is totally metal neutral (good given the size and scope of the JV)

The set up for this JV is not eye watering in the terms of growth, but it will push more pax to our DAL pilot flown flights thus making flights like LAX-SYD more sustainable on the main deck. (good)

It does allow DAL to go to five flights a week if V Australia is at 14 and 4 flights a day under approval, but forces V Australia back to 14 if we go below 7. It is more complicated but read the TA and look at the matrix and read the language of the TA not just the NNP(good and bad)

In the end we are talking about a small JV with the possibility of some growth for the DAL pilots in the future that is equally shared after 7 frequencies are added by V Australia.(one frequency per day) Its not a gigantic deal but it does allow for hard bottom end protections and equal growth going forward. The cure period is 12 months and we are not going to start a new measurement period in March 2013, but conclude one. The measurement period is 12 months not 36. All of these difference need to be noted.

Originally Posted by ilinipilot (Post 1301728)

That is the problem we have. All our (super most lucrative) wide-body flying is being slowly reduced and our contract is not reflective of this new paradigm. Our contract and our expecations are of a narrow body pilot to wide-body fo to narrow body captain to wide body captain.
I believe the new reality is narrow body fo to semi wide body fo (767 300a330, 7674), to narrow body capt.
I believe our contract needs to reflect this new paradigm in two ways.

1. all wide bodyflying needs to be the paid the same rate 747, 777, a330, 764 7673 international. BUT it needs to be paid at the highest rate period. we cannot let ourselves be screwed in the game of musical joint venture a/c. Delta is taking advantage of this right now with our current structure and we are fools to think they will order big highest paying a/c when AF and everyone else has them. right now we are looking a future of no 747 as they are reduced and replaced with i assume 777300. Thus reducing the most lucrative paying positions. The same can be said for the 7674 as either it or the a330 is combined.
We need to demand all a/c above 7673 intl pay the same. If the company will not agree to it then we counter with a floor on the number od 747, 777 CA/FO positions. and if it drops below the current floor (as of today) that triggers all 7673 intl and above to be paid the highest 747 rate.

As a side note it has been mentioned a lot on this forum Ucal AA have much bigger higher paying fleets than we do.
2. also our narrow body rates need to go WAY up to reflect this future of fewer and fewer highest paying opportunities.

thanks for reading

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1301998)

Pilot counts at the merger:

744: 152 Capt/ 218 F/O
777: 193 Capt/194 F/O

Pilot counts in November 2012:

744: 206 Capt/ 239 F/O
777: 262 Capt/ 277 F/O

I think your basic premise is false.

Originally Posted by XtremeF150 (Post 1302279)

It is ok T we should just trust and show good faith. I'm sure they have our best interest at heart. They always take care of us as long as we play nice.