Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
11-30-2012, 09:39 AM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
But he doesn't care. He's still collecting FPL today.
11-30-2012, 09:41 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
11-30-2012, 09:44 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
It will be interesting to see how much the AS feed into the 3 airports increases based on this JV....
11-30-2012, 09:44 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
11-30-2012, 09:51 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
alfa's numbers are a result of two things.
Delta's 2 captain rule for ultra long range flights and the addition of a couple 777s that were on order that Delta couldn't cancel in bankruptcy.
Give me a break. Our international fleet hasn't grown and everybody knows it.
Anyone who has been around this property for a few years knows that alfaromeo is the zen master of statistical analysis and also misleading statistical analysis when it suits his purpose. On a moment's notice he can produce a pie chart or a bar graph to prove 2+2 does not = 4.
We are supposedly a global powerhouse yet we have no widebody jets on order. Most of our intl fleet is soon to be obsolete 767s. Our codeshare partners have hundreds on order and we continue making these agreements that provide them with their US connections. We continue to retreat from point to point service fron CONUS to overseas and concentrate on flying into their hubs.
They will soon be flying all the big iron and DALPA will be happy because those pax are filling our 717s.
Maybe DALPA has no legal way to stop them and we are just making the best of a bad situation but are you seriously trying to tell us that these JV agreements aren't lopsided in favor of our partners?
The international stuff. 737-900s replacing 757s. The shrinking seniority list. etc. etc.
We are being slowly downsized and the MEC is managing it very well.
Congratulations and thank you very much, but how about let's try to stop it instead.
Quit the unconditional cooperation. Just once when its appropriate to raise hell then let's raise hell!
Delta's 2 captain rule for ultra long range flights and the addition of a couple 777s that were on order that Delta couldn't cancel in bankruptcy.
Give me a break. Our international fleet hasn't grown and everybody knows it.
Anyone who has been around this property for a few years knows that alfaromeo is the zen master of statistical analysis and also misleading statistical analysis when it suits his purpose. On a moment's notice he can produce a pie chart or a bar graph to prove 2+2 does not = 4.
We are supposedly a global powerhouse yet we have no widebody jets on order. Most of our intl fleet is soon to be obsolete 767s. Our codeshare partners have hundreds on order and we continue making these agreements that provide them with their US connections. We continue to retreat from point to point service fron CONUS to overseas and concentrate on flying into their hubs.
They will soon be flying all the big iron and DALPA will be happy because those pax are filling our 717s.
Maybe DALPA has no legal way to stop them and we are just making the best of a bad situation but are you seriously trying to tell us that these JV agreements aren't lopsided in favor of our partners?
The international stuff. 737-900s replacing 757s. The shrinking seniority list. etc. etc.
We are being slowly downsized and the MEC is managing it very well.
Congratulations and thank you very much, but how about let's try to stop it instead.
Quit the unconditional cooperation. Just once when its appropriate to raise hell then let's raise hell!
11-30-2012, 10:10 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
Well, sadly all of these issues are not really able to be addressed by our union unless we enter into contract negotiations. Many people were concerned about these issues when the TA was signed, and 38 percent thought that not enough had been done. But we agreed to it. And we got our raises and are getting our 717's. Maybe we would have gotten those anyway, who knows. The point is, until we are really going to get behind the union and force these issues to be dealt with at the negotiating table, we will continue to sell ourselves out.
I'll make a prediction. That when the contract becomes amendable in 2015, there will magically appear some new "issues"... new widebody order, economic collapse, whatever. We will be asked to trade whatever the company wants, work rules, more code share, scope... in order to get a small raise and some shiny new airplane. Our union will react with fear in their hearts and put the word out to us that unless we give the company exactly what the company wants, we might as well just go to Truckmasters. Oh but we should have seen the earlier proposal... it was so much worse! This one is much better... just sign here. The new contract will pass 60-40. In the end, it will hurt us because what we'll trade will not be worth the quid and we'll be back on here wondering how we got where we are today... so predictable.
I'll make a prediction. That when the contract becomes amendable in 2015, there will magically appear some new "issues"... new widebody order, economic collapse, whatever. We will be asked to trade whatever the company wants, work rules, more code share, scope... in order to get a small raise and some shiny new airplane. Our union will react with fear in their hearts and put the word out to us that unless we give the company exactly what the company wants, we might as well just go to Truckmasters. Oh but we should have seen the earlier proposal... it was so much worse! This one is much better... just sign here. The new contract will pass 60-40. In the end, it will hurt us because what we'll trade will not be worth the quid and we'll be back on here wondering how we got where we are today... so predictable.
11-30-2012, 10:27 AM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Compliments of Uncle Ferd... (WARNING- there is one F-bomb about half way through. Don't click on it if you don't want to hear it! 
)
)
11-30-2012, 10:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: M88B
Posts: 1,179
11-30-2012, 12:07 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,930
This goes back to the crux of why there is code sharing.
Using the premise that all Delta coded flying be done by Delta pilots, our network (meaning in this case flights flown by Delta pilots) would be substantially smaller than it is today.
Oz - USA is a strategic route for VA. It is a boutique route to DL. Boutique routes go away when they don't make money. Strategic routes are ones that you "have" to fly in order to stay in business. Under Delta's current strategy, an example of strategic routes would be transcons to business markets; even though they're overserved and have tremendous competition, we have to be in them in order to maintain coporate contracts that pay the freight on the rest of our network.
So without the codeshare, we pull out of Oz. We also lose the 100-200 pax daily that VA puts into our network and the LAX 737 or 757 daily departures shrink by 1. It works the opposite way too. We fly to Sidney. VA takes our pax to Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Lose those pax and our Sydney flight is no longer profitable, as they then go to Qantas.
My example is oversimplified, but let me know if it doesn't speak to your point.
Using the premise that all Delta coded flying be done by Delta pilots, our network (meaning in this case flights flown by Delta pilots) would be substantially smaller than it is today.
Oz - USA is a strategic route for VA. It is a boutique route to DL. Boutique routes go away when they don't make money. Strategic routes are ones that you "have" to fly in order to stay in business. Under Delta's current strategy, an example of strategic routes would be transcons to business markets; even though they're overserved and have tremendous competition, we have to be in them in order to maintain coporate contracts that pay the freight on the rest of our network.
So without the codeshare, we pull out of Oz. We also lose the 100-200 pax daily that VA puts into our network and the LAX 737 or 757 daily departures shrink by 1. It works the opposite way too. We fly to Sidney. VA takes our pax to Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne. Lose those pax and our Sydney flight is no longer profitable, as they then go to Qantas.
My example is oversimplified, but let me know if it doesn't speak to your point.
Slow,
Your example is fine and I do understand, but I think the frustration comes from the fact that it seems all of code-shares are like this. Where are the routes where we have a strategic interest and our JV has a boutique route? Do these routes even exist? Where are the JVs where we can have up to a 20-7 weekly advantage?
Thanks Scoop
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