Originally Posted by forgot to bid

So rumor here: the Delta folks at the Women in Aviation conference are saying no off the street hiring in 2013 or 2014.

Didn't say anything about taking flows from Pinnacle or Compass, just that it won't be off the street hiring.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44

This goes along with what I have been saying for the last few years. I said late 2015 if the 65 year olds actually start leaving a year or two early (they're not). I just don't see any hiring in 2013 or 2014. If Johnso gets displaced off the ER, reality will sink in.

Originally Posted by newKnow

I knew better, too. The company is going to do what they have to do. They always will. I just don't understand how sailing thinks guys have bad memories.

Argh! The beard! I hope he shaved that thing off with a baby in the house.

Originally Posted by Ferd149

Oh I have a bad memory.......thanks to some guy named Jack

Yeah, poor baby 80. He will be 6 or maybe even 8 before he figures out he doesn't have 2 dads and why they are never home at the same time

Originally Posted by newKnow

Sailing,

So, you don't think it was reasonable for pilots to look a that memo assume that we would be hiring by now? The distinction between "in class" and "hiring process" is something trained lawyers should catch, not pilots.

At any rate, it's interesting to note that this "unanticipated event" that caused them to delay the hiring process, happened sometime between June - when the memo was posted - and October - when the hiring process was forecast to possibly start. What happened in those 3 months that was unanticipated and caused them to change their minds?

Finally, at the time, I don't remember anyone saying the company only planned on hiring 150 pilots based on a model that they would get 300 early retirements.

1.) How do you know this?
2.) If I'm right, why do you think they left this important detail out?

I bet a lot of yes voters might have thought differently if they knew the company was only going to hire 150 pilots at best. Maybe even Bill Lumberg would have toned it down a little.

Originally Posted by Will

I don't want to open up a can of worms but this is what I got. As you all know they PCL negotiating committee was dealing with Delta management and they anticipate hiring to start early 2014.

Originally Posted by Ferd149

I have no fancy graphs or hard numbers, but I'll just remind everyone that in a merger 1 + 1 does NOT = 3..........it equals 1.5.

Due to some contract language, but IMHO, due to not wanting this place to look like USAir, RA and the boys have carried a lot more pilots on the books than are necessary. If we would have furloughed, the last few years would have been a train wreck around here. But, we've gotten the chance to fly together, get to know each other and become one group.

I agree with FTB that this contract requires even fewer guys that the old contract, but I take our stagnation back farther than that. I guess in my mind, the question STILL remains, what would you be doing if we hadn't merged?

Ferd

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Seems plausible to me, continues our current shrinking trajectory. But let's just say it's too much, weren't there rumors of picking up some more 717s? Do a 20-30 more of those things and you have a flat capacity.

But you do have more mainline airframes. 30-40 in that scenario. Which if we multiply that by the 10.1 pilot ratio we're running on the 88 we'd end up with 300-400 more pilots? If we did 80 airplanes like the filing said and get to 797 total (i.e. 4% larger than we were 4 years ago) it's 800 more pilots?

Minus the more productive pilot efficiencies and we'd need to be hiring 3-7 pilots a month over the next six years. But we do have a contract in the middle of that and given our current trends in productivity, paying for our own jets and increasing jumbo RJs, who knows.

I'll be happy if in 2018 we still require 11,800 pilots.

Originally Posted by Will

I don't want to open up a can of worms but this is what I got. As you all know they PCL negotiating committee was dealing with Delta management and they anticipate hiring to start early 2014.

Originally Posted by johnso29

Didn't the company state 7 crews per B717?