Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1368456)

Bogus analysis. You always spin it the same way, as if instantly the rise and fall of inventory of planes and pilots doesn't exist-- "If it was so bad, we would instantly on this AE see hundreds of displacements!"

WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.

Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:

You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"

And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...

I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.

Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1368456)

Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:

[1]You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"

[2]And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...

[3]I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1368468)

Well Said RoadKill!!!

Sailing has little to no credibility as far as I'm concerned. Practically 80% of what he posts is biased and skewed. You are going to have to excuse me for not popping wood when he boasts about RFPs going out for near term wide body orders.

Originally Posted by DeadHead (Post 1368468)

Well Said RoadKill!!!

Sailing has little to no credibility as far as I'm concerned. Practically 80% of what he posts is biased and skewed. You are going to have to excuse me for not popping wood when he boasts about RFPs going out for near term wide body orders.



DH,


I agree with most of your post but disagree with what is bolded - Sailing has more credibility than most on here. I don't always agree with him, for instance I think this displacement Bid blows. I was expecting more on the last bid and was told to wait for this bid. Now we are told to wait for the upcoming bids. Wash, rinse, repeat.


I am sick of the "good stuff" tomorrow crap - it has been going on for almost 12 years. For the guys upset how this last TA was sold it is nothing new, in 2003 we were shown Pilots required with the NW/CAL code-share vs Pilots without. Same crap as with this last TA - maybe it will happen someday - but as CCR says "someday never comes."



Sailing does tend to gloss over and belittle some of venting that many of us do on this forum and paints a lot of issues with a Pro DALPA point of view but so what? He has right to an opinion just as we all do - challenge him on the facts if you disagree with him. Sailing appears "factually" correct more often than not, however I believe a lot of us here, especially the FOs, are sick of being told how good we have it. To me this is more of an opinion and even though I disagree, I separate this from credibility, which I think Sailing has plenty of.


Scoop - Just my 2 Cents

Originally Posted by Roadkill (Post 1368456)

Bogus analysis. You always spin it the same way, as if instantly the rise and fall of inventory of planes and pilots doesn't exist-- "If it was so bad, we would instantly on this AE see hundreds of displacements!"

WRONG. It WAS bad, and we ARE seeing hundreds of bad things-- you just spin it like they don't exist. What we are seeing is the evaporation of the hiring that would have been required. This is exactly like Safety work... just because there are no visible plane crashes, doesn't mean something huge didn't happen safety wise. What we are seeing is :
1. No hiring, when the company would have been required to hire.
2. Small amount of narrowbody capt spots funded from displaced widebody, when they would have been funded from FOs moving UP instead of wide Capts moving down.
3. Small amount of total vacancies, when they would have required hundreds more instead.
4. Some possible advancement for some in top 50%, who've already been sitting at the top of this pyramid scheme 5 years longer than anyone was ever supposed to, when it was deemed an acceptable pyramid of inequity... ZERO advancement for those at the bottom of the pyramid, who've been sitting there for 14 years or so now.

Here's something sinkr8 or gloopy would write to explain it:

You're like a rich cattleman, looking at a turd a coyote just laid and say, "Well hey, this is nowhere near as smelly and large as it could have been! And very soon this coyote says he'll stop cr pping altogether He's going vegetarian! And come on, he can't really eat my cows!" We look at the same turd as poor land-croppers who can only aspire to owning poultry and say, "Yeah, but that wolf ate all my chickens and rabbits!"

And I guess I should defuse your standard attack/response by saying I love working for Delta, I love coming to work, I have several alternate plans and income sources, I want the best for the airline and investors, I don't want to quit and work somewhere else and shouldn't have to just because I speak up when I see someone twisting truth into a palatable lie, I'm 99% enthused about everything Delta is doing and the other 1% is probably good for the owners, I wear my hat and coat and actually like them a bit, I do everything I can to make folks fly Delta just like you do...

I just disagree on the pilot-count results of the TA. That's it. I don't even necessarily disagree on whether something better was even possible! I'm smart enough to recognize medicine and when I need it... but it absolutely irks me when someone tries to tell me the fish-oil they're feeding me is candy, and my taste-buds are lying to me.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1368575)

vacation slide question

does minus move vacation earlier and plus move it later or vice versa?

Originally Posted by NERD (Post 1368446)

51 senior to low 6300s for 717A