Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1368606)

Whats a 2000 hire seniority? I'd spitball around 8200 as well.

Originally Posted by Pro Fessional (Post 1368616)

January 2000 hire:

DAL 8600
NWA 10100

Originally Posted by Delta1067 (Post 1368590)

Any guesses on how many MD's, if any, will come off the bottom of NYC 7ERB now that the bid has been posted? Hoping to avoid training.

Originally Posted by boog123 (Post 1368609)

8200 is late 97 DAL, 99 NWA.

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1368617)

I'll go a beer on it making it to a 2000 hire.

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1368264)

Sailing,

APC is the conversational equivalent of a corporate expense account and a bar in the lobby. One notable revolution was started in a pub and we should give John Adam's family credit.

With your call to action, do you mean management, or ALPA?

Surely you realize we work in a profession, which by it's disciplined nature tends to be autocratic. Dissenting views are not included inside the circle. This makes sense in management, where the Company pays us for our service and reasonably expects our full cooperation in return.

Ideally, ALPA is a member run organization directed from the hands of the members who pay for it's service with the labor of those hands. The reality is power has been consolidated in a way as to prevent the democratic function of the association. Members are allowed to voice their opinions, but non-member administrators have much more actual power over the strategic direction of our association than the membership does.

A few from our forum have run for office and were elected over candidates who had serious admin support and leverage. This forum does have some political power as a springboard for those who aspire to hands on leadership.

So, I think your challenge has been accepted and to some extent achieved. Progress will go slow until we get a small legion of civilians over here who think outside the chain of command. They will probably demand the union they pay for actually respond to members' commands.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1368636)

hope this is right, I was trying to get a picture of what the AE actually was...

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps7e78d4c9.png

source: screaming captain kirk on dalpa forums. :)

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 1368548)

I think your central problem is separating out what was a result of the TA and what wasn't. How many pilots posted their 12 month lookback on hours that were less than 200 for the year? How many guys have been talking about sitting on reserve and not flying for weeks? It certainly shouldn't have been any surprise to you that we were overstaffed by a good amount starting 2012. In January 2012 we had 1430 pilots over the minimum staffing formula. As a comparison, January 2007 we had 300 pilots over the min staffing formula. That overstaffing was before we even started negotiations. That overstaffing had nothing to do with the TA.

Also, it should not be a surprise that the poor economy in Europe that is causing a decrease in Atlantic flying is also not a result of the TA. We had well over a hundred (maybe close to 200) guys come back from military leave, that had nothing to do with the TA. The A-330's were scheduled to go to lie flat mods and that had nothing to do with the TA.

So you are trying to conflate everything negative about your career progression with the ratification of the TA. This is just a false argument.

These are the differences that occurred with the TA;

1. Early out program that let about 200 pilots out early
2. Work rule changes, some positive some negative, that cost about 125-150 jobs net
3. Acceleration of 50 seat removals and addition of 717's (or other small narrow body) at a faster rate than without the TA

In short, the TA made whatever bad stuff you feel, less bad. Without the TA we still were overstaffed, pilots would still come back from Mil Leave, the A-330's would go in for mx, and Europe would still be in recession. Each bid that has come out since the TA has been net positive for pilots moving to higher paying positions and this will be the same. Much of that gain has been because the early out program and the addition of 290 jobs from the 717.


So you can rant all you want. If you want to blame the weather on the TA or SuperStorm Sandy or anything else you can. The problem is separating out independent and dependent events. Most on this forum simply lump all their problems, real or perceived, and then blame the TA for this. That is a false argument.