Sailing,

APC is the conversational equivalent of a corporate expense account and a bar in the lobby. One notable revolution was started in a pub and we should give John Adam's family credit.

With your call to action, do you mean management, or ALPA?

Surely you realize we work in a profession, which by it's disciplined nature tends to be autocratic. Dissenting views are not included inside the circle. This makes sense in management, where the Company pays us for our service and reasonably expects our full cooperation in return.

Ideally, ALPA is a member run organization directed from the hands of the members who pay for it's service with the labor of those hands. The reality is power has been consolidated in a way as to prevent the democratic function of the association. Members are allowed to voice their opinions, but non-member administrators have much more actual power over the strategic direction of our association than the membership does.

A few from our forum have run for office and were elected over candidates who had serious admin support and leverage. This forum does have some political power as a springboard for those who aspire to hands on leadership.

So, I think your challenge has been accepted and to some extent achieved. Progress will go slow until we get a small legion of civilians over here who think outside the chain of command. They will probably demand the union they pay for actually respond to members' commands.

The same engineers that "applied their skills" to the DC-9, "improved" the DC-10. What could possibly go wrong?

Fit our narrow body order Sailing referenced :)

Cheaptrick,

Most of us can't relate to your personal rocket ship ride to the left seat, so I'm not sure exactly what to say except to compare my personal ride which is 13 years at company still in bottom 17% of seniority list and moving backward on every bid in last 3 years on narrow body aircraft.

As far a rocket ship ride in next 15 years. I only have 19 left to work. I think that is the angst that most of the people in my group feel.

Sailing,

Where is the widebody RFP proposal posted I searched the internet and Delta net but could not find it. That does not mean it does not exist just that I can not find it.

Also, I do understand that they are offering 80ish new Capt positions but the fact reamains that they are funding the first 300 pilots in the 717 with displacements from larger aircraft. These aircraft were sold as growth aircraft. I think most of us are just disappointed. Even 2 weeks ago at the SD road show they told us that they were growth aircraft and would require hiring and now crew resources is putting statements like this out "However, we do not plan on hiring to fill those positions" How much more clear can it be that they do not intend to hire than saying we do not intend to hire to fill vacancies. The message I got is that with only 161 retirements in next 2 years they are telling up that they do not need to hire.

a FedEx jumpseater said they'd gotten a lot of brand new 767's for cheap from Boeing since they wanted to keep the line going until they start pumping out the tankers for the air force. Maybe we'll get some of these

I have been looking at those NYC M88 trips and they look pretty good. Lots of MIA layovers and mostly commutable!

I spent 5 years in the SO seat and checked out as a Captain after 13 years in NYC which was very junior. Better then current but not sure I would call it a rocket ride. The only hiring planned initially was to pick up 100 to 150 pilots this winter to smooth out the DC9 to 717 transition. Contrary to the forum hiring was never promised in 2012. The statement was they may need to begin the hiring process in late 2012. Instead we will start the process this fall. Its been posted here many times why that delay has occurred. Instead of 300 to 350 ER's they got only 196. They had a higher then expected number of pilots come back from Mil Leave. Even then flight ops wanted to hire but was told to make do. We have been carrying a surplus of FO's. Everyone knew the nines were going away. If the contract had in fact cost us thousands of jobs or even hundreds of jobs this bid would have had a massive net displacement. Instead it has a net positive numbers of AE's and is substantially positive for Captains which is what moves people to the left seat. They have already put out that this bid clears the surplus copilots and follow on bids this year are expected to be almost all AE's. I call that good news.

P.S. We were supposed to retire a bunch of 757's during the next year. At least one for one with 737-900's coming on the property. Combine that with the massive loss of jobs from work rule concessions posted on here you would have expected 200 to 300 Captains to be displaced from the aircraft. Instead we added 3 Captains net on the767. How do you explain that?

The Lost Decade was a Japanese thing, actually lost two decades. To use the term to describe the US economy is political hyperbole. When the economy was going gangbusters in the 2000s the airlines were going bankrupt, we didn't get to participate but I know many rode very high then. If anything, we have a lost half decade right now and the airlines have done better than one could expect.

That really leaves only one, doesn't it...
At nearly half the price of the 777 the A330 is the cheap go-to choice...

I still wouldn't be surprised to see the 346, as far-out as it seems.
Airbus is offering to cover the fuel burn difference with cash for a bunch of operators. If flown in a common category just like the 75/76 a 250 300 and 350 seat jet is a networks guy's wet dream for capacity flexibility.

Cheers
George

psssst. The wording for both of the bolded events is identical, yet youre giving credence to the latter while excusing the former? Remember me calling you out on logical invalidities recently? Yeah, you're doing it again.

edit: We've also never had a net negative bid since I've been here... they have been at the worst net neutral, so the positive spin on this very marginally positive bid really isn't worth the value that you're trying to give it.