Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

If we can't use it for charts, can't use it below 10000, can't connect to the internet in flight, can't do my bids or recurrent on it, then no... it's just another heavy expensive brick I have to take out at security. Make it really functional and maybe I'll find it useful. It kinda makes sense since it sounds like the 717 program is getting a bit behind. I'm sure Microsoft has a warehouse filled with unsold Surfaces they're looking to unload.

flyallnite

04-17-2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1392837)

When I first checked out as my fist Capt. job on the MD88, I had the FAA on the jumpseat to watch on the last leg. His one critique was that I rotated slowly...

I mentioned that since we had departed from a 10,000' runway, with no obstacles, wouldn't we be much better off, rudder control and climb wise, if we had lost an engine at V1, with the extra 10 knots...? :rolleyes:

The only time I worry about getting up quickly and being right on V2 is if it's a very short runway or there is an obstacle to be cleared, and 99% of the time, there isn't.

If the guys in the DFW 727 no-flap takeoff (1987) had rotated slower, they might have been able to fly it off, it was a 12,000 runway. Ever since that accident I've never been in a hurry to "jerk it off"....so to speak!

Well said sir. I was in SVO when the 767 tailstrike happened. I heard it was a new hire FO, which makes sense because at the time the sim instructors were all breathing down your neck (literally) about "getting that nose up to V2-V2+10 right away!!!" The sim just doesn't rotate like an aft CG 7ER on a cold day. Maybe he rotated early too, I don't know, but I completely agree we are teaching a method that should really be considered a Transport Category airplane's version of a short field takeoff. No need to do anything quickly in a 400,000lb airplane.

Timbo

04-17-2013 08:59 AM

I think the "Problem" might originate in the sim, because the instructor has to have some criteria to grade you on, they choose V2 to V2+15, so they harp on not exceding it, wich is great if you've lost an engine, but what about teaching what to do for a NORMAL takeoff??

newKnow

04-17-2013 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dc8co (Post 1392906)

Lca meeting yesterday. Came from Anderson

Sweet! That's good news. :D

gloopy

04-17-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1392355)

OK, boys and girls... enough of th religious discussion. Weve made the rounds of blame and, as it turns out, everyone has skeletons in their closet r

My God can beat up your God.

Denny Crane

04-17-2013 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1392880)

Hey now, watch it! I was an Air Guard KC135 puke! BUT....I had my ATP and over 4,500 hrs. before I joined and went to UPT.

All I had to learn at UPT was to keep my mouth shut, and I nearly flunked that! :D

But your point is well taken, I hated going to any SAC base, way too many "SAC Stan-Eval Copilots" walking around there, all zippers zipped, hats on, boots shined.

Hey now! I resembled the bolded in your post. The rest is debatable! :)

Unfortunately for me, before I went to OTS, I was not aware of the Guard/Reserve avenue......:eek: I know, what a dumb***!

Denny

Pineapple Guy

04-17-2013 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1392918)

I argued this point also, once, with an LCA (not on a checkride), and his response was, "well, if we let you rotate slow on most take offs, you won't know to do it "by the book" when flying out of LGA on a wet runway....

I was speechless.

gloopy

04-17-2013 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy (Post 1392847)

+1

How many pilots have killed people due to rotating too fast and crashing either because:

a) they forgot to put out the flaps
b) they lost an engine at a critical time and couldn't save it
c) they got distracted with another issue and lost control due to low speed
d) they hit windshear with insufficient speed

Compare that number, with how many pilots have killed people because they ran off the end of the runway and/or hit something off the departure end, solely because they were rotating too slowly...

Yet, we continue to preach bad piloting, imo. This has been my biggest pet peeve with how my company tells me to fly airplanes.

Agreed. We (the industry) puts WAY too much incorrect emphasis on flying a 2 engines working plane exactly like an engine out plane. If you hear "rotate" and haven't lost an engine yet, you've already significantly exceeded single engine TERPS criteria. By the time you get the nosewheel off the ground with two engines, you've blown it away. Yet we're taught to reflexively and agressively pitch for similar airspeeds at all costs.

Likewise, the industry is just now beginning to come around to fixing the insane stall [negative] training many carriers/fleets have been pushing for a long time. Approaching a stall? Hear/feel the shaker? Better pull back quickly because the checkride demands you not lose more than 100 ft of altitude! :eek:

forgot to bid

04-17-2013 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1392918)

Yes. That is what I saw.

I think I had to do 8 takeoffs my first day in the real 756 sim back in 08. It was literally too slow do it again, nope faster do it again, nope again........ then in my mind I slightly picked up the pace and got a shout from the back "whoa whoa too fast you'll hit the tail!"

So I stopped trying to learn and just tried to figure out how to get the sim over with. I think its interesting no one critiques how you put it on the pavement just how you pull it off.

FTB
proud to double rotate

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