Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-21-2013 | 08:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,831
Likes: 172
From: window seat
The guys who think we get plenty of time off have the votes.
The guys who think $150,000 is plenty of money have the votes.
Probably their Dad never made that much. They are able to live comfortably and conservatively in a nice middle class neighborhood where they already make more money than most of the people living around them and they don't see why we should rock the boat excessively or take undue risks in pursuit of more.
Its them we need to reach.
We need to convince those guys that we are not just blue collar labor. We have skills and assume responsibilities comparable with top surgeons or lawyers or engineers and we deserve comparable compensation.
We need to figure out a way to enlighten those guys who are satisfied with our current pay rates and work rules. If we don't, then ALPA will continue to be successful in managing our expectations and convincing us that we aren't worth $300,000 and the company couldn't afford it even if we were.
The guys who think $150,000 is plenty of money have the votes.
Probably their Dad never made that much. They are able to live comfortably and conservatively in a nice middle class neighborhood where they already make more money than most of the people living around them and they don't see why we should rock the boat excessively or take undue risks in pursuit of more.
Its them we need to reach.
We need to convince those guys that we are not just blue collar labor. We have skills and assume responsibilities comparable with top surgeons or lawyers or engineers and we deserve comparable compensation.
We need to figure out a way to enlighten those guys who are satisfied with our current pay rates and work rules. If we don't, then ALPA will continue to be successful in managing our expectations and convincing us that we aren't worth $300,000 and the company couldn't afford it even if we were.
Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.
Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.
05-21-2013 | 08:27 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 7,775
Likes: 0
From: 777B
I see where you're going with this, I really do. We as a profession in general and at DL specifically do deserve more and we should negotiate hard for it. But be careful with that broad brush you're painting with. There are plenty of ballers out there who are absolute slaves to their maxed out monthly nuts and "can't afford" the slightest pay cut and will therefore vote yes for anything that throws a buck at them.
Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.
Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.
Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.
Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.
I fly with guys all the time that are upside down and they don't quit digging. They have to vote yes. I don't understand how you can get that messed up financially, but that is how I'm wired.
A recent "wow" moment was one guy telling me how he was going to retire this september because he invested all his money in a concert promoter in asia. Everytime he goes there the guy takes him out to dinner and sets him up with a hooker... Really...You're going to retire this september, huh?
"Welcome to walmart. Would you like fries with that?"
05-21-2013 | 10:09 PM
meh
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Likes: 0
There's no way in my category that I'd get anywhere close to ALV with the pathetic productivity of our trips. I wouldn't honestly mind the extra money though since I'm in base on a trip, or sitting short call, 18 days a month. I'd rather make ALV+15 - if for no other reason than to make more than you - because I'm fairly certain you aren't getting ALV+15.
You all continue to act like you were barraged with horrible, malicious things from this new PWA - is this the entitled pilots club?
And before you go on trying to discredit me because of what I said about medical records, again, you blow stuff out of context because you very likely went to a lousy public school and failed to grasp reading comprehension. You know - like placing words into context to extract the writer's meaning? The contract states that a pilot may be required to sign a release of medical records for limited information. Information that is limited to the specific sickness that you called in sick for, the days immediately proceeding and following the sick days, and then it only goes to specific people in the company. AND this, and ONLY this, after the Chief Pilot has elected to ask the pilot to state the nature of his illness and considered the explanation of the illness to require further/additional information. If you read the contract and apply it in the manner in which it would be applied in an operational context you'd find it to be the manner in which the company would fire pilots like you for "using their sick time because it's theirs to use at their discretion". (read - I accuse you of calling in sick when you're not sick).
What the company can't get to is the rest of stuff that you've likely kept hidden from the FAA - which is what you're really worried and paranoid about.
Get over yourself - and +2 and +3 - if you have so little to add, your (your spelled correctly in this context) credibility is about as pathetic as it gets. I don't crave the acceptance of any of you, or want to be "right" like Carl thinks he is. More correctly, I own stock in AstraZeneca (the maker of Prilosec) and the stress this must cause you will improve the earnings of the company.
You all continue to act like you were barraged with horrible, malicious things from this new PWA - is this the entitled pilots club?
And before you go on trying to discredit me because of what I said about medical records, again, you blow stuff out of context because you very likely went to a lousy public school and failed to grasp reading comprehension. You know - like placing words into context to extract the writer's meaning? The contract states that a pilot may be required to sign a release of medical records for limited information. Information that is limited to the specific sickness that you called in sick for, the days immediately proceeding and following the sick days, and then it only goes to specific people in the company. AND this, and ONLY this, after the Chief Pilot has elected to ask the pilot to state the nature of his illness and considered the explanation of the illness to require further/additional information. If you read the contract and apply it in the manner in which it would be applied in an operational context you'd find it to be the manner in which the company would fire pilots like you for "using their sick time because it's theirs to use at their discretion". (read - I accuse you of calling in sick when you're not sick).
What the company can't get to is the rest of stuff that you've likely kept hidden from the FAA - which is what you're really worried and paranoid about.
Get over yourself - and +2 and +3 - if you have so little to add, your (your spelled correctly in this context) credibility is about as pathetic as it gets. I don't crave the acceptance of any of you, or want to be "right" like Carl thinks he is. More correctly, I own stock in AstraZeneca (the maker of Prilosec) and the stress this must cause you will improve the earnings of the company.
Yeah, the bar got lowered a bit with this post ^^^ ...
05-21-2013 | 10:18 PM
meh
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 828
Likes: 0
Roadkill's vote for best quote of the last 10 pages:
from Gloopy: "to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself."
Nice prose.
from Gloopy: "to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself."
Nice prose.
05-22-2013 | 02:42 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: Delta M88 A ATL
[QUOTE=hockeypilot44;1413822]This post just ****es me off. Are you for us or against us? The new FAR's will make what we are currently doing illegal because it is dangerous so you feel we should give a concession to keep from hurting the company? Again, who's side are you on? The domestic side will flat out being hurt by this. If it was really a make or break item for the company, we could have left the domestic side alone. I'm really tired of hearing about our 12.5 percent raise. It is a 4 percent signing bonus raise followed by a 6.5 percent raise. It's a 10.8 raise rounding up. If you get part of the raise from profit sharing, you don't get to count it. So we get a 7.8 percent raise + 3 percent COLA. We then get two more COLA. We actually gave up scope allowing more regional jets to get this. We failed miserably. I was a hell no vote. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. Our increase in health insurance next year will easily eat my 3 percent. I'm disgusted. I initially thought a 40 percent raise on day 1 was fair. Then I decided that I was probably being unrealistic so I cut it in half to about a 20-25 percent raise on day 1. I never in a million years thought my own union was going to agree to a 10.8 percent raise in exchange for allowing more regional jets. The fact that our union can't admit it made a mistake really bothers me.[/QUO
you just scored a goal with one second left on the clock !
....take me off ur no fly list....I'll buy
you just scored a goal with one second left on the clock !
....take me off ur no fly list....I'll buy
05-22-2013 | 02:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 383
Likes: 0
From: Delta M88 A ATL
Scoop,
I dont think soooooo, because 63% of us will vote for any contract
That sucks, but it is reality!
05-22-2013 | 03:08 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
^^This is more how I see it.
I fly with guys all the time that are upside down and they don't quit digging. They have to vote yes. I don't understand how you can get that messed up financially, but that is how I'm wired.
A recent "wow" moment was one guy telling me how he was going to retire this september because he invested all his money in a concert promoter in asia. Everytime he goes there the guy takes him out to dinner and sets him up with a hooker... Really...You're going to retire this september, huh?
"Welcome to walmart. Would you like fries with that?"
I fly with guys all the time that are upside down and they don't quit digging. They have to vote yes. I don't understand how you can get that messed up financially, but that is how I'm wired.
A recent "wow" moment was one guy telling me how he was going to retire this september because he invested all his money in a concert promoter in asia. Everytime he goes there the guy takes him out to dinner and sets him up with a hooker... Really...You're going to retire this september, huh?
"Welcome to walmart. Would you like fries with that?"
05-22-2013 | 04:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,876
Likes: 193
I see where you're going with this, I really do. We as a profession in general and at DL specifically do deserve more and we should negotiate hard for it. But be careful with that broad brush you're painting with. There are plenty of ballers out there who are absolute slaves to their maxed out monthly nuts and "can't afford" the slightest pay cut and will therefore vote yes for anything that throws a buck at them.
Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.
Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.
Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.
Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.
I am sorry you have such a low opinion of your fellow pilots. I must hang out with a different crowd. The pilots I know took a long hard look at the reality of the RLA and the industry as a whole. They looked at the options available and the success of other airlines who exercised those options. They looked at history for RLA contracts and how the NMB has handled contracts and their timeline which they made available to all pilots when the head met with the MEC. They made intelligent and informed decisions be that a yes or no vote.
In the end I am always results oriented. This contract broke a over decade long log jam in the industry. Its a huge step forward after 12 long years going in the wrong direction. Its duration was something no other airline has come close to matching and will have us starting work on the next contract in 18 months.
I spend a lot of time with young pilots looking to get into this industry. Delta is the first choice of virtually every single one that I talk with. It was not that long ago that Delta was almost down to a cash level that would have required liquidation. Our contract was in court under a 1113 motion with every aspect of it being decimated. Today we are the envy of the industry and the place everyone except many forum posters here wants to be. We have a contract that gives Delta the highest total block hour costs in the passenger industry in the US. No one has matched it and those who have come close signed much longer contracts. Those that went down the path this forum advocates never produced any results let alone what we have achieved since 2005.
Some on this forum need to pick better friends that they can view as smart and intelligent. My friends tend to be much smarter then me and I recognize that. This forum seems to populated by a group that puts themselves on a pedestal and looks down on all their fellow pilots. I would love to talk to some of you in 25 years and see what wisdom age brings you. I think the results would be surprising.
05-22-2013 | 04:29 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
I was painting with a very broad brush. There are 10,000 individual stories in this pilot group.
I think we've hit on 2 of the biggest categories of yes voters though.
There are the comfortable guys who live modestly and are content with what they have and there are the over-extended guys whose lives would be destroyed by a 14 day strike.
ALPA owns those guys. They will vote yes to whatever is put in front of them. We need to somehow convince them that they deserve more and they can get more.
05-22-2013 | 04:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: 777 Sim Instructor
Let me get this straight, if you voted for the contract you were either in financial jeopardy, or ignorant. I'm sorry, the only ignorance I see is in posts like the ones above.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
