What I got from talking to my Reps was the option that was not explored was bring the Reps in at the first discovery of the violation, ask them to come prepared to the meeting with thier thinking caps on to discuss creative ideas and solutions. What was the time from discovery until the Reps - the only governing authority within the MEC per ALPA constitution and bylawas - were informed? Instead it was the typical artificially induced crisis where the Reps were withheld information then presented with a pre-packaged pre-strategized option A or option A with lots of the same hyperbole (they COULD pull down NRT) being parroted by some here.

I think at the end of day the MEC managed to come up with a working solution to a $h!t sandwhich but the process was tortured and it was reached in spite of, not because of the process. Let's call it what it really is - buying time while evaluating a less than optimal situation which we don't have a great deal of leverage or control over.

Don't insult the intelligence or sophistication of the pilot group by engaging in propaganda that NRT has lost relevance, could be shut down, and this is a "Scope Improvement Opportunity".

Don't this I have. Personally I suspect NRT or Tokyo will be part of our operation for decades to come.

On the rest. Not sure where you got all of that. My Rep did not communicate that. We have 19 Voting type A personalities, I'm sure none of them is going to be willfully rolled over. If what you assert was the case, then maybe it was that the team that presented it, saw X as the best option, and presented it to the MEC, who then debated it, and came up with something close, similar, or maybe totally different. Were you in the room? I do not think any of us were, so none of us knows what went down.

What I do know is the MEC communicated now with the pilots, not in six months after it was all over.

One of our Senior Mommas said they were told by their supervisor; come Sept, 20% of the DTW to Asia flying is going away. She didn't know exactly which destinations, but look at this A/E, the NRT scope issue and you can connect the dots.

Could just be a shift of flying from the base especially from the ER... maybe LAX and SEA will get more of those trips. 20% less biddable Asia trips, if you're picking up what I am throwing down. Wasn't that the idea all along? NYC/ATL ER do Euro flying, DTW/MSP more domestic and LAX/SEA to do Asia. FAs always seem to blow things up.

You dont have to roll those who have already rolled over :eek: I agree with some of what you say, however my Reps and a number of others LEC's were not even informed of the purpose of the Special MEC meeting until it started. No I was not in the room and am satisfied with the level of debate that took place. What is also disturbing is a few Reps and committee folks trying to spin the risk/reward and threat out of proportion and in a different direction than the unanimously expressed opinion of the MEC.

Could be the weakness of the Yen and nothing more. United had something out late last week that it was seeing real headwinds with revenue to and through NRT.

The MEC said its only 2500 tickets per year. Its really insignificant.
This will just require small incremental changes to our scope. It'll be an "improvement".
DALPA has everything under control.
There's no dots. Flight Ops management said the last bid was the last of the big displacements. This latest 100 displacements off the 7ER is just a technical adjustment. Its a clean up bid. Happens all the time.

Pay no attention to those whiners on the Internet forums.
There's no need to over-react. Wind the clock you silly pilots.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zUCJo-Lldh...ling-water.jpg

If we look further back into Japan's history than most of us remember the answers to Japan's future begin to come into focus. Japan was the first (or one of the first) nations to adopt a socialist model (so if men died at war their families would be cared for by the State) and as a result has a culture of generous public assistance. That has resulted in public debt levels at 250% of Gross Domestic Product. (for comparison the US Debt that everyone shouts about closed 2012 at 100.8%).

Every Central Bank in the World has stimulated money by making cash available a nearly 0% interest. Eventually governments must stop qualitative easing. When they do the holders of the low interest government bonds will be hurt. To sell there wares, Governments will have to increase rates. The cost to all governments will be high, but the first and worst major economy to be effected will be Japan.

There are already clear signs Japan's stimulus / devaluation plan is going off the rails. How bad it gets? Who knows? In other nations the result has been political instability and to some degree, this is how a number of revolutions have gotten started going back to a lot of French Aristocracy's heads literally rolling. FWIW, Japan is trying to re-write it's Constitution as this economic experiment is in full swing.

The only reason the wheels have not already come off the wagon in Japan is that most of Japan's debt is held by the Japanese, who are all to well aware that if anyone starts selling it hurts everyone in the economic community together. So if one sells, it hurts their remaining holdings ... and who to sell to? China sure aint going to buy that stuff unless they do it purposely to destabilize Japan. Recall they are still fighting over disputed territories. (oh and one of the goals of the new Japanese Constitution is to rearm themselves and ditch their US enforced pacifism)

I'd go further than to say Narita is dying. I'd say the whole of the nation is in serious trouble.

I respect your opinions ... and respectfully disagree in this case.

Global traffic flows are shifting. We have to change and adapt. What the Northwest pilots negotiated, back when they came up with this, made sense then. Now, trained Economists are all watching the Bank of Japan and preparing their own book deals.

The other side of this is the capacity increases being brought on line by the Middle Eastern carriers. (I've not seen analysis on this yet) We may have to shift to point to point to compete.

While I gripe a lot about the three year window and non existent enforcement mechanisms, the truth is the AF / KLM / AZ Joint Venture concept is good strategic thinking. By drawing a circle around the whole of the operation we get our balance of anything new management wants to try in that space. A move towards an inclusive scope concept aids our pilots.

If they had no idea about the subject prior to the event, did your Rep(s) indicate they were displeased with this? Mine gave me no indication of this, but I did not ask.

As for some of the "spin" on the other forum, yeah, it appears it has been toned down a bit. No need to manage a group, when the best avenue is information that the group.