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Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1452346)
Don't get your hopes up, I'm betting you'll be rerouted to ATL, then fly two ATL-MCO's and a 9hr. layover in GSP or RDU instead! :D
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 1452475)
You're not missing anything. (If anything, I'm the one missing something!:)) I'm assuming we will win any grievance and there will be consequences to the company one of which is to comply with the TAJV percentages. I was just curious what you would like to see as "compensation" for the flying already lost if it wasn't money. I would agree with your number 1, fly more to get us back into compliance and make up for the time we have lost prior to winning a grievance. The only problem with that is we would have to eventually cut it back to remain within the proper percentages. Numbers 2 and 3 are resolutions of the problem going forward after a grievance. I would want some kind of compensation for the shortage of flying that is occurring now (whether it be more flying over and above the TAJV percentage to make up the shortfall or money).
When the end of the window comes I sure hope we hold the company's feet to the fire on the this issue. Everything I've heard from my reps leads me to believe we will. Time will tell. It would take a major screw up to lose a grievance like this one. Denny Unfortunately, the way I read our JV language, I don't think we have a strong case for receiving any compensatory damages for flying lost prior to the measurement date of March 2014. The arbitrator would likely only give us a fix going forward. This totally depends on how ALPA allows DALPA to fight this grievance. Any and all funds/legal assets would come from ALPA national. One choice of ALPA's would be to negotiate it away directly with management without any DALPA input. Another would be for DALPA to purposely put forth an extremely weak case and try to lose in exchange for a strategic promise from management. Yet another possibility is for DALPA to claim our language is too weak to even grieve (like the RAH scope abuse). In order to win this, we would need a strong response from ALPA national showing anger at the number of jobs lost by Delta pilots and commit the full legal resources of national to defend the language and accept nothing other than full compliance immediately. It will also require DALPA forcing management to do something they absolutely don't want to do. What do you think our chances are of getting these responses from ALPA/DALPA? Carl |
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1452537)
Now I'm with you. I knew I was missing your main point.
Unfortunately, the way I read our JV language, I don't think we have a strong case for receiving any compensatory damages for flying lost prior to the measurement date of March 2014. The arbitrator would likely only give us a fix going forward. This totally depends on how ALPA allows DALPA to fight this grievance. Any and all funds/legal assets would come from ALPA national. One choice of ALPA's would be to negotiate it away directly with management without any DALPA input. Another would be for DALPA to purposely put forth an extremely weak case and try to lose in exchange for a strategic promise from management. Yet another possibility is for DALPA to claim our language is too weak to even grieve (like the RAH scope abuse). In order to win this, we would need a strong response from ALPA national showing anger at the number of jobs lost by Delta pilots and commit the full legal resources of national to defend the language and accept nothing other than full compliance immediately. It will also require DALPA forcing management to do something they absolutely don't want to do. What do you think our chances are of getting these responses from ALPA/DALPA? Carl What If... Richard is going to now trade DALPA the much fabled Wide Body Order, for JVTA and NRT Slot relief? It'll sound something like this: Hey guys, Richard says we can't make money flying X, Y and Z...but if we give him Scope Relief (again) he will order 12 more A330's, to fly A, B and C!! Hoo Ray! It's Win Win! Again! Seems to me that Richard has never wasted an opportunity to trade the corporate long term plans to DALPA, in exchange for more scope relief. :rolleyes: I mean heck, if they are going to do it anyway, why not tell DALPA the whole deal rests ON THEM capitulating...something, right? What's the worst that could happen? Has DALPA ever said NO to...anything Richard threw at them? So, I expect we will give all the JVTA and NRT slot relief necessary, and as soon as we do, Richard will announce the Wide Body Order....:rolleyes: Just don't be surprised when you find out this big Wide Body Order is really 767ER replacement jets, something they were going to have to do anyway. |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1452543)
Here's something I've been thinking about ever since the "Early Contract, Golden Opportunity", you know, the one where Richard traded us 4833 with upcoming record profits, in exchange for the 717's and parking the 50 seat RJ's, ie. all of which was going to happen regardless...
What If... Richard is going to now trade DALPA the much fabled Wide Body Order, for JVTA and NRT Slot relief? It'll sound something like this: Hey guys, Richard says we can't make money flying X, Y and Z...but if we give him Scope Relief (again) he will order 12 more A330's, to fly A, B and C!! Hoo Ray! It's Win Win! Again! Seems to me that Richard has never wasted an opportunity to trade the corporate long term plans to DALPA, in exchange for more scope relief. :rolleyes: I mean heck, if they are going to do it anyway, why not tell DALPA the whole deal rests ON THEM capitulating...something, right? What's the worst that could happen? Has DALPA ever said NO to...anything Richard threw at them? So, I expect we will give all the JVTA and NRT slot relief necessary, and as soon as we do, Richard will announce the Wide Body Order....:rolleyes: Just don't be surprised when you find out this big Wide Body Order is really 767ER replacement jets, something they were going to have to do anyway. Sounds about right. |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1452543)
Here's something I've been thinking about ever since the "Early Contract, Golden Opportunity", you know, the one where Richard traded us 4833 with upcoming record profits, in exchange for the 717's and parking the 50 seat RJ's, ie. all of which was going to happen regardless...
What If... Richard is going to now trade DALPA the much fabled Wide Body Order, for JVTA and NRT Slot relief? It'll sound something like this: Hey guys, Richard says we can't make money flying X, Y and Z...but if we give him Scope Relief (again) he will order 12 more A330's, to fly A, B and C!! Hoo Ray! It's Win Win! Again! Seems to me that Richard has never wasted an opportunity to trade the corporate long term plans to DALPA, in exchange for more scope relief. :rolleyes: I mean heck, if they are going to do it anyway, why not tell DALPA the whole deal rests ON THEM capitulating...something, right? What's the worst that could happen? Has DALPA ever said NO to...anything Richard threw at them? So, I expect we will give all the JVTA and NRT slot relief necessary, and as soon as we do, Richard will announce the Wide Body Order....:rolleyes: Just don't be surprised when you find out this big Wide Body Order is really 767ER replacement jets, something they were going to have to do anyway. Fast forward to DALPA's response when new wide bodies replace existing ones: "Stop being so negative about everything". And DALPA's response to the next violation and iron clad language portrayed as indefensible: Shut up you Carl-loving ALPA-hater. Carl |
Carl, you've got it. That's why the Lawyers always leave loopholes.
It's their job protection, because they'll have to come back and close those loopholes! (and open new ones) |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1452560)
Carl, you've got it. That's why the Lawyers always leave loopholes.
It's their job protection, because they'll have to come back and close those loopholes! (and open new ones) |
73N CQ lately?
anybody been through the 73N CQ lately? i heard it was a little different than years past...?? Thx!
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
(Post 1452441)
In my previous post, I used the term Atlantic to mean the TAJV. This is the JV that will be way out of compliance by the measuring date of March 2014. If we win the grievance (and there's no way to lose unless DALPA purposely loses it for strategic reasons), then forcing them to comply means just that. They can comply in three ways: 1. Fly more Atlantic stuff with Delta pilots. 2. Force the partners to reduce their Atlantic flying. 3. Cancel the JV. There is no fourth choice of compensatory damages. Comply means comply. If we allow anything else, we set the precedence of rendering ratios and percentages meaningless in any JV or code share.
What am I missing here Denny? Carl |
Originally Posted by Timbo
(Post 1452543)
Here's something I've been thinking about ever since the "Early Contract, Golden Opportunity", you know, the one where Richard traded us 4833 with upcoming record profits, in exchange for the 717's and parking the 50 seat RJ's, ie. all of which was going to happen regardless...
What If... Richard is going to now trade DALPA the much fabled Wide Body Order, for JVTA and NRT Slot relief? It'll sound something like this: Hey guys, Richard says we can't make money flying X, Y and Z...but if we give him Scope Relief (again) he will order 12 more A330's, to fly A, B and C!! Hoo Ray! It's Win Win! Again! Seems to me that Richard has never wasted an opportunity to trade the corporate long term plans to DALPA, in exchange for more scope relief. :rolleyes: I mean heck, if they are going to do it anyway, why not tell DALPA the whole deal rests ON THEM capitulating...something, right? What's the worst that could happen? Has DALPA ever said NO to...anything Richard threw at them? So, I expect we will give all the JVTA and NRT slot relief necessary, and as soon as we do, Richard will announce the Wide Body Order....:rolleyes: Just don't be surprised when you find out this big Wide Body Order is really 767ER replacement jets, something they were going to have to do anyway. |
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