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Old 08-30-2013 | 06:44 PM
  #138311  
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From: Light Chop
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Originally Posted by Scoop
I think Johnson might be right on this but it should definitely be resolved.

Once again referencing Negotiators Notepad 5-12:

Delivery of additional 76-seat aircraft is prohibited until SNB aircraft are first added to
the mainline fleet, and then, a simultaneous reduction of 50-seat aircraft is required. This
is an event-based process and not time or date-based.
As Delta implements their
business plan and adds more SNBs, only then may they add more 76-seat aircraft, while
also removing 50-seat aircraft. Once a 50-seat aircraft is removed, the number of
allowable 50-seat aircraft is capped at that level until the next removal and so on. That
cap can then never increase.


Event based with no date attached. I looked in the Live Contract but could not find this - I did see the 2014 date mentioned with Block hour ratios but not in regard to small NB vs. additional 76 seaters.


Scoop
I guess it depends on what your definition of "added to the mainline fleet" is?

now mainline is us, I think that's a fairly easy conclusion. fleet though is defined in Section 1A as: Fleet means aircraft in service, undergoing maintenance, and operational spares.

I guess they could say undergoing maintenance means they're added. to brightest lawyers ever wil agree.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:45 PM
  #138312  
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From: A-320A
Default Ref PWA Language pages 1-12 to 1-13

The Company will maintain a minimum ratio of revenue block hours of Company flying on all narrowbody aircraft and all B-767-300 (non – ER) aircraft (MBH) to revenue block hours of flying in category A and C operations (DBH) under the following chart:
a. b.
Cell 1 states the maximum number of 76-seat aircraft engaged in category A or C operations as of July 1, 2012, and cells 2 through 8 show an increase in the number of such 76-seat aircraft (if added in accordance with Section 1 B. 46. f.), and
Cells 9 through 16 state the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH that the Company must maintain given the number of 76-seat aircraft in cells 2 through 8.
Number of 76-Seat Aircraft Engaged In Category A or C Operations
Min. Ratio of MBH to DBH
76 seat jets
in A or C Ops Min Ratio MBH to DBH
2. 154-163 10. 1.10
3. 164-173 11. 1.25
4. 174-183 12. 1.30
5. 184-193 13. 1.35
6. 194-203 14. 1.40
7. 204-213 15. 1.47
8. 214-223 16. 1.56
c. The Company’s compliance with the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH will be measured for the first time on July 1, 2014 and then measured again each succeeding July 1 thereafter, in each instance for the preceding 12 months on a weighted basis by the number of 76-seat aircraft in category A or C operations each month.
d. Beginning on July 1, 2013, and continuing on each succeeding January 1 and July 1 thereafter, the Company will provide to the Association a projection of scheduled MBH and DBH for the following six-month period commencing on such July 1 or January 1, as applicable.
e. The Company will only be excused from compliance with the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH:
if it was projected to be in compliance with the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH in both of the preceding six month projection periods (i.e., both the January 1 and July 1 projections of the preceding 12 months), or
in the event a circumstance over which the Company does not have control is the cause of such noncompliance.
f. In the event the Company is excused from compliance with the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH under Section 1 D. 9. e. 1), it must remedy its non-compliance by the following January 1 by achieving the minimum ratio of MBH to DBH as measured for the prior twelve months (i.e., January 1 of the then-current year to December 31 of the then-current year).
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:45 PM
  #138313  
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From: B757/767
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I thought the same thing you did Johnso. I only found out about it today discussing the 717 delays with my rep.

Those 900s are still flying in DL colors... I believe for Expressjet.
So to clarify, your FO rep told you that Delta is permitted to operate additional 76 seaters without having 717s first?
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:48 PM
  #138314  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Nobody that I've ever spoken to or whose words I've read has ever stated their support for decertifying ALPA was because of anything Mr. Caplinger has ever said. It's been for any number of various reasons experienced by each individual personally.

Since you've mentioned offensiveness, you should realize that by your comments above, you're stating your belief that thousands of your fellow pilots have signed DPA cards to avenge harm done to Mr. Caplinger.

Carl
HUGE leap in logic. I think that the dough boys would have gone away had Caplinger had any integrity and stuck to the deadline he originally set. But he didn't. And he doesn't. It has nothing to you or any of the other followers. It is all about him, his integrity, and his motivations. None of which pass any kind of smell test. He is out for revenge.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:48 PM
  #138315  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
I thought the same thing you did Johnso. I only found out about it today discussing the 717 delays with my rep.

Those 900s are still flying in DL colors... I believe for Expressjet.
Are we above 153 76 seat jets at this time? Last report I saw said no. 154 is where all of this language and the trigger of the 717's being on property kicks in. Taking delivery is not flying them. If there is an operational flight of the 154th 76 seat jet, report it. Code Share is monitoring this closely.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:49 PM
  #138316  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
So to clarify, your FO rep told you that Delta May operate additional 76 seaters without having 717s first?
See what ACL wrote. Apparently no enforcement is possible prior to measurement on Jan 1...

9E obviously isn't taking delaying taking delivery of the aircraft, but they were planning on not flying the line with them until mid september, I'm assuming to coincide with the 717. Now with the 717 delayed, let's see what happens.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:53 PM
  #138317  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Are we above 153 76 seat jets at this time? Last report I saw said no. 154 is where all of this language and the trigger of the 717's being on property kicks in. Taking delivery is not flying them. If there is an operational flight of the 154th 76 seat jet, report it. Code Share is monitoring this closely.

If a line dog has to report it, than I am not sure "Code Share's" and my definition of "close" are very much aligned.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:56 PM
  #138318  
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From: Light Chop
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But couldn't they say we have 5 B717s in the shop right now thus they're undergoing maintenance thus per the PWA definitions section they're in the fleet and we can operate 4 CRJ900s?
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:57 PM
  #138319  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
See what ACL wrote. Apparently no enforcement is possible prior to measurement on Jan 1...

9E obviously isn't taking delaying taking delivery of the aircraft, but they were planning on not flying the line with them until mid september, I'm assuming to coincide with the 717. Now with the 717 delayed, let's see what happens.
Well this could get interesting. It is one thing for the JV with a foreign carrier to be expected to be out of compliance at a future date, this is a whole different deali-o. Frankly, this would be inexcusable. I am waiting for official word however, but this is something that has no reason to wait until the official "date" in order to be prosecuted.

I would advise to do some of that proactive **** Mav.... before this becomes a Waterloo.
Old 08-30-2013 | 06:58 PM
  #138320  
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From: 767er Captain
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
But couldn't they say we have 5 B717s in the shop right now thus they're undergoing maintenance thus per the PWA definitions section they're in the fleet and we can operate 4 CRJ900s?
I believe the language said they must be in service. Hangar queens do not count. IF I remember correctly.
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