28. “Fleet” means aircraft in service, undergoing maintenance, and operational spares.

I don't find the word "established" in C2012 or PWA2008. But fleet is added to C2012 definitions as it didn't exist before.

 

maybe not all, but I sure have-I'm sure the senior dudes have it better

 

Carl,

It took some research.

In 1998 ALPA gutted and bifurcated its Merger and Alter-ego policy.

The policy prior to these changes reflected the lessons of the Texas Air fiasco and formally declared that alter egos in any form to be the greatest threat to ALPA and they were not to be tolerated under any circumstances. At that time the definition of an alter ego was "When management forms or acquires another company for the purpose of operating an airline, it shall be deemed an alter ego..." ALPA's policy sought to prevent the formation of alter egos. If formed or acquired, ALPA's weapon of choice was the forced merger of the seniority lists. Thus the reason why the merger and alter ego policies were one in the same.

In 1998 ALPA bifurcated the Merger and Alter-ego policy and, worse, gutted the key definitions in the merger policy making it totally discretionary. ALPA said the primary motive was the Duke-Spellacy case and they didn't want to get pinned down in court again.

The Delta MEC was the instigator of the change and the timing, just months prior to Delta's purchase of ASA, suggests the Delta MEC had advanced knowledge of management's intentions concerning both ASA and Comair.

In effect, you could say ALPA's 1998 decision sowed the seeds of their own decline and the rise of the start-up rival unions. It wasn't just a bad decision, but it was the product of a horribly flawed strategic analysis where objective facts didn't matter.

As stated earlier, the disunity of the DPA is nothing new. It's genesis was right here, it resonates with the logic of the Delta MEC and Admin 15 years ago.

 

Phantom,

You are correct. President Moak has not been given a completely "free pass." Behind the scenes he has taken a little heat. Most view his actions in balance and aren't going to act on an issue which mostly screws the express pilots.

If we end up with the DPA we have no chance to fix it. By structure and design the DPA does not want to undo the harm of disunity. The DPA represents the old radicals that screwed the thing up to being with.

ALPA has the structure in place that facilitates restoration.

 

DPA supporters ... if you call for a vote, where do you draw the line on the "craft and class" that you intend to represent?
a. Delta seniority list pilots
b. Pilots within the Delta MEC at merger who are active
c. All pilots who perform Delta Company flying

 

Yes. Notice how it says "AND" operational spares? Not "OR" operational spares? Therefore, fleet is not a fleet until all 3 of those things are met.

 

Didn't these things come with seats in them ? I think they even had a blue cover.

Well? Spray some cleaner on them, stick those in and let's go.

Seats have been a hot button issue since some Asian carriers were found to be non compliant. Sequestration, Miami, an out of production design, the work outsourced and perhaps under the direction of a competitive rival who was going to pay us to take them off theirs hands and who now realizes these things might be a small part of a bigger play at Delta who is spending billions on new jets at its new wholly owned subsidiary .... What could go wrong?

As new $38,930,000.00 regional jets start to pile up ... crap, probably time for me to stop posting on web boards.Ya know, we could hire Delta pilots for these airplanes....

 

This happened to me as well. Just take the new rotation number and type it into the rotation tab. A trip will show up. At this point, it won't have your name on it. It will be a crappy trip that has none of the parameter's you used when you bid.

In my case, it increased my trip from a three day to a four day. I would drop it. But, there isn't anything in open time. I can't get a white slip, guys senior to me lap those up no matter how crappy the trip.

I thought we had changed this in the last contract, but after consulting with a DALPA professional, it seems we didn't. My bad. I would avoid carry over trips, but you can't avoid them entirely.

I didn't bid reserve, but it looks like that's really what I got.

 

So if the entire fleet is flying and not one is in maintenance or not one can be an operational spare then it's not a fleet?

My bet, and I'm no Newk, is that the word fleet was added to prevent the 717s from being acquired and put into storage but that acquisition being enough to allow the CRJ-900s to be ordered and flown on revenue service without the 717s. The word maintenance was in there because that would allow ## CR9s to enter into service even if the required number of 717s had not yet hit the line because they were being refurbished in maintenance.

That's my guess. But let's say it is a violation, 717s in maintenance and not yet flying therefore means no CR9s can be flying but let's say they do anyways, what are we going to do about it? I mean what do we get for that when we find out the 717s are good to go come Nov 1 and in the meantime the company is flying 160 super premium jumbo 76-seater RJs?

What's your definition of constructive engagement?

 

Bingo. Surely there is a defined penalty in the PWA should a contract violation occur. I mean, that's what lawyers do, create water tight language to include significant enough penalties to make sure one side doesn't take advantage of the other.