Originally Posted by johnso29

What's the concern? An insurance payout?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yeah, from Kitty Hawk no less.

Carl

Originally Posted by Splash

I'm disappointed in you. This area seems like a weakness in the argument for DPA, and you act unwilling to engage on it.

Originally Posted by Splash

The nut here is that we all know ALPA has flaws and weak areas. What we know about DPA is they would have some of the same flaws, and some new ones that we should understand.

Are you afraid to concede any of those?

Originally Posted by Splash

If I'm wrong with the fact that ALPA dues have only gone down since you and I joined ALPA, then prove it.

Originally Posted by Splash

If I'm wrong with the fact that we got a dues refund this year, prove it.

Originally Posted by Splash

If I'm wrong with the fact that we've never experienced a period in the past 30 years that would have seen our dues rate decrease to 1% under the DPA constitution, then prove it.

Originally Posted by Splash

But just brushing them off as my opinions without offering any sort of evidence to correct or refute them does your cause a disservice and puts your integrity in play.

Originally Posted by CVG767A

Unbelievable! I've been away from this board for months now. I can't believe that guys are still beating the DPA drum. Give it up already! You guys were losing momentum six months ago; what little support you have is dissipating with each airplane delivery.

I look forward to the day this board is interesting again. See you all in a few months! Best of luck to those of you that are willing to continue jousting with the DPA zealots.

Originally Posted by CVG767A

Unbelievable! I've been away from this board for months now. I can't believe that guys are still beating the DPA drum. Give it up already! You guys were losing momentum six months ago; what little support you have is dissipating with each airplane delivery.

I look forward to the day this board is interesting again. See you all in a few months! Best of luck to those of you that are willing to continue jousting with the DPA zealots.

Originally Posted by hitimefurl

Geezuz. That's my point exactly. I didn't vote on the current DPA constitution it was developed with some input but mostly by the "founders" whoever they are. The DPA Constitution is in place day 1. The DPA is supposed to be an improvement over ALPA. A dues increase without a vote is not an improvement regardless of the reason for funding. Who decided that in the future they know we'll need exactly .5% more dues for every section 6 and merger? The only thing you and I disagree on is the date of when it happens (because there hasn't been an election) and whether its a minimum of 2% or 2.25% both of which are higher than today not counting the last refund. ALPA has reduced dues effective next year and refunded left over money. Wasn't that a goal?

There are no block reps to sent this too to have it changed today before it goes into affect. In order to change this after a DPA vote I need to have the 25% of my entire block vote on the resolution, then have 2/3 of the executive board vote on it and then the simple majority of all pilots. All that to get rid of something that we already have protection from today! How is that an improvement? All I need today for a resolution is a simple majority at an LEC meeting. There's never been an LEC vote with 25% of the participants. That bar is set too high for self governance.

ALL DAL ALPA special circumstance assessments today require a vote of all the pilots. Why would you get rid of that protection? The one item that the DPA keeps scaring people over is the ability for ALPA to asses pilot without a vote.

The DPA is proposing automatic dues increases every few years without a vote. Why not just make it a an assessment that we all vote on just like today?

Let's skip the misdirection of trying to talk about voting on LOAs, that's a different discussing. This one is about money. You really think that an automatic dues assessment of the pilots without a vote is okay? The DPA started off with saying we can lower dues because we won't need more money. Why the automatic increase for every Section 6 or every merger bot of which we know will happen again in the very near future.

Originally Posted by hitimefurl

geezuz. That's my point exactly. I didn't vote on the current dpa constitution it was developed with some input but mostly by the "founders" whoever they are. The dpa constitution is in place day 1. The dpa is supposed to be an improvement over alpa. a dues increase without a vote is not an improvement regardless of the reason for funding. Who decided that in the future they know we'll need exactly .5% more dues for every section 6 and merger? The only thing you and i disagree on is the date of when it happens (because there hasn't been an election) and whether its a minimum of 2% or 2.25% both of which are higher than today not counting the last refund. Alpa has reduced dues effective next year and refunded left over money. Wasn't that a goal?

There are no block reps to sent this too to have it changed today before it goes into affect. In order to change this after a dpa vote i need to have the 25% of my entire block vote on the resolution, then have 2/3 of the executive board vote on it and then the simple majority of all pilots. All that to get rid of something that we already have protection from today! How is that an improvement? All i need today for a resolution is a simple majority at an lec meeting. There's never been an lec vote with 25% of the participants. That bar is set too high for self governance.

All dal alpa special circumstance assessments today require a vote of all the pilots. Why would you get rid of that protection? The one item that the dpa keeps scaring people over is the ability for alpa to asses pilot without a vote.

The dpa is proposing automatic dues increases every few years without a vote. Why not just make it a an assessment that we all vote on just like today?

Let's skip the misdirection of trying to talk about voting on loas, that's a different discussing. This one is about money. You really think that an automatic dues assessment of the pilots without a vote is okay? The dpa started off with saying we can lower dues because we won't need more money. Why the automatic increase for every section 6 or every merger bot of which we know will happen again in the very near future.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank

Why say something in 20 words when 2000 will suffice?

Originally Posted by johnso29

Exactly. So tell me why DPA is better. Back it up with facts. Here are my facts about DPA. Straight from the constitution.

-2.25% dues automatically implemented during Sec 6, early openers, bankruptcy, & mergers.

Originally Posted by johnso29

-Higher Flight Pay Loss then ALPA

Originally Posted by johnso29

Then these facts to follow:

-A law firm that was FIRED by USAPA.

Originally Posted by johnso29

-A $1 million line of credit that Delta pilots will HAVE to pay back, and no one has told us the interest rates.

Originally Posted by johnso29

-No ability to lobby for itself, and requiring CAPA to do so on their behalf.

That's a good start.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

And I don't think anyone here would agree with your assertion that I've been unwilling to engage on this topic.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I don't know when you became an ALPA member. I became one in 1979. My dues have gone up and down many times from the approximately 2% level over the years. Not including the many special assessments for special circumstances. I'd expect that from any union, so it doesn't surprise me and I've never raised it as an issue or concern. It's being raised now as a DALPA talking point because of panic at the possibility of an ALPA decertification vote. It's the outrage du juor.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You're arguing with yourself. I've not spoken on the topic.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Again, you'll understand my lack of concern over your opinion about my integrity. I do find it interesting that your last post was on July 22, and you just happened to swing by and respond to my responses to hitimefurl. I'm OK with DALPA sponsored rent-a-mobs...free speech and all, but I don't think it puts your integrity in play. You're merely responding to the DALPA "all hands on deck" call to man the forums.