Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-09-2013 | 04:34 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 922
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From: Decoupled
If you guys want some REAL RAISES in 2015, we need to start getting prepared NOW! So when/where is the next Family Awareness meeting being held? I've done it before, I'd be happy to host the first one, this Friday night, at my house, there will be Torpedo's, Bushmills, sailboats and fishing. Bring the kids.
I hosted Family Awareness meetings in DFW back in 1996. I served beer, good beer, wine and snacks.
You would have thought I was devil himself.
Spirituous drink, you will roast in hell!
You should have seen the looks I got. Half the people on my list that I invited declined because they had to go to bible study.
Family Awareness only goes so far. I'll go to Timbo's meeting. There is no reason why union activity can't be fun, too.
My point to this story is the DFW base was a little weird.
10-09-2013 | 04:34 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
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From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
OK GJ, why don't you tell us what YOU think is a "Reasonable" pay raise?
I have no idea what your personal background is with regard to Delta South's contract history. Were you working for DL South when we negotiated the 25+% raise in C2K?
For those of you who were not here for that, I'll try to be brief:
How did we achieve that high a pay raise? We were PREPARED! Our MEC did a fantastic job of motivating the pilot group to DEMAND more! We held Family Awareness meetings, we used the press, we pointed out Delta's record profits, we held informational picketing, we took a strike vote, we cleaned out our lockers and marched through the ATL. In short, it took two years of very hard work to get that big raise, but we got it.
Contrast that to what just happened to us a year ago, you know, the 4833 contract. We were woefully UN-prepared. Richard knew Delta would be making more money, soon. He saw an opportunity to lock us into a 4 year deal for miniscule raises, and to cut our profit sharing by 33% to pay for it. He created leverage and used it very effectively.
How? Simple. He caught us with our pants down, he threw up artificial time constraints based on RJ 50/717 swap, (and you must act now, and we'll start hiring as soon as the ink is dry!).
If we had not signed on to that a year ago, we would be negotiating now, while the company is making record profits. We might be having those same family awareness meetings, and marching around the airport, etc. All the stuff we did in 2000.
But we didn't.
So we got what we deserved; 3 pizz poor pay raises, very little increase to our pizz poor retirement funding (1%?!), and now we gave back 33% of our profit sharing too.
Brilliant.
We were rushed, by Richard, into a 6 week section 6 negotiations, then our own NC went behind the backs of the MEC and signed a 'Take it or Leave It' type deal.
Let me clue you into a little secret: When ever the company comes to us, with a "Hey, have we got a Deal for YOU!" it never turns out to be a deal for us, it's for THEM, that's why they came to us to open early in the first place!
The "Big Opportunity" Richard was talking about was not to swap RJ's for 717's, it was an opportunity for HIM, to lock us out of the upcoming record profit years and tie us to two 3% pay raises while they roll in our dough, and to negotiate a quick, small raise, while we were completely unprepared to go to war looking for more.
Now GJ, don't be going all DPA on me. I've never sent in a card, because I don't see where any new bargaining agent is going to do any better. I believe our upcoming battles will be fought in Washington DC, with Congress, with regard to Cabotage, Foreign Ownership laws, etc.
I believe in supporting ALPA's PAC. I've been a supporter for my entire career, and I think that is our best chance to influence Congress. I don't see how DPA is going to get their foot into the doorway of any Congressman.
You can hide behind the RLA and the NMB all you want, but the fact is, we were woefully unprepared to negotiate for more a year ago, and Richard knew it, saw his opportunity, and took it.
If you guys want some REAL RAISES in 2015, we need to start getting prepared NOW! So when/where is the next Family Awareness meeting being held? I've done it before, I'd be happy to host the first one, this Friday night, at my house, there will be Torpedo's, Bushmills, sailboats and fishing. Bring the kids.
I have no idea what your personal background is with regard to Delta South's contract history. Were you working for DL South when we negotiated the 25+% raise in C2K?
For those of you who were not here for that, I'll try to be brief:
How did we achieve that high a pay raise? We were PREPARED! Our MEC did a fantastic job of motivating the pilot group to DEMAND more! We held Family Awareness meetings, we used the press, we pointed out Delta's record profits, we held informational picketing, we took a strike vote, we cleaned out our lockers and marched through the ATL. In short, it took two years of very hard work to get that big raise, but we got it.
Contrast that to what just happened to us a year ago, you know, the 4833 contract. We were woefully UN-prepared. Richard knew Delta would be making more money, soon. He saw an opportunity to lock us into a 4 year deal for miniscule raises, and to cut our profit sharing by 33% to pay for it. He created leverage and used it very effectively.
How? Simple. He caught us with our pants down, he threw up artificial time constraints based on RJ 50/717 swap, (and you must act now, and we'll start hiring as soon as the ink is dry!).
If we had not signed on to that a year ago, we would be negotiating now, while the company is making record profits. We might be having those same family awareness meetings, and marching around the airport, etc. All the stuff we did in 2000.
But we didn't.
So we got what we deserved; 3 pizz poor pay raises, very little increase to our pizz poor retirement funding (1%?!), and now we gave back 33% of our profit sharing too.
Brilliant.
We were rushed, by Richard, into a 6 week section 6 negotiations, then our own NC went behind the backs of the MEC and signed a 'Take it or Leave It' type deal.
Let me clue you into a little secret: When ever the company comes to us, with a "Hey, have we got a Deal for YOU!" it never turns out to be a deal for us, it's for THEM, that's why they came to us to open early in the first place!
The "Big Opportunity" Richard was talking about was not to swap RJ's for 717's, it was an opportunity for HIM, to lock us out of the upcoming record profit years and tie us to two 3% pay raises while they roll in our dough, and to negotiate a quick, small raise, while we were completely unprepared to go to war looking for more.
Now GJ, don't be going all DPA on me. I've never sent in a card, because I don't see where any new bargaining agent is going to do any better. I believe our upcoming battles will be fought in Washington DC, with Congress, with regard to Cabotage, Foreign Ownership laws, etc.
I believe in supporting ALPA's PAC. I've been a supporter for my entire career, and I think that is our best chance to influence Congress. I don't see how DPA is going to get their foot into the doorway of any Congressman.
You can hide behind the RLA and the NMB all you want, but the fact is, we were woefully unprepared to negotiate for more a year ago, and Richard knew it, saw his opportunity, and took it.
If you guys want some REAL RAISES in 2015, we need to start getting prepared NOW! So when/where is the next Family Awareness meeting being held? I've done it before, I'd be happy to host the first one, this Friday night, at my house, there will be Torpedo's, Bushmills, sailboats and fishing. Bring the kids.
10-09-2013 | 04:41 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
I hosted Family Awareness meetings in DFW back in 1996. I served beer, good beer, wine and snacks.
You would have thought I was devil himself.
Spirituous drink, you will roast in hell!
You should have seen the looks I got. Half the people on my list that I invited declined because they had to go to bible study.
Family Awareness only goes so far. I'll go to Timbo's meeting. There is no reason why union activity can't be fun, too.
My point to this story is the DFW base was a little weird.
You would have thought I was devil himself.
Spirituous drink, you will roast in hell!
You should have seen the looks I got. Half the people on my list that I invited declined because they had to go to bible study.
Family Awareness only goes so far. I'll go to Timbo's meeting. There is no reason why union activity can't be fun, too.
My point to this story is the DFW base was a little weird.
I was doing some P2P work up in BOS during the run up to POS 96. I spent many days in the pilot lounge telling guys what a POS it was, and to vote NO!
When it was over, and it passed, I was LIVID! I voted NO, as did many others, but it did pass. I called the MEC office to scream at somebody, and the then DFW F/O rep (initials JM, I'm sure you know who) answered the phone, so I let him have it, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING VOTING YES TO THIS POS??!!"
He told me he personally voted no, in the membership vote, but as a DFW LEC Rep he had to vote Yes, because he was getting 20 phone calls a day from DFW pilots begging him to vote yes!
He said they were saying, "I just bought a house, I can't afford a strike, please vote YES!" etc.
When I said, "What is the matter with these idiots? Didn't they see this coming and get prepared, financially?"
He said, "What did you think that rocking chair was for?"
True then, still true today. That's why DPA won't have any better success than DALPA, it's not about the leadership, it's about the followership!
Got to go to Bible Study now!
Oh wait, no I don't!
10-09-2013 | 04:41 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 264
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Gearjerk,
Please confirm? DALPA (through you, Ed Harley, and the rest of the lowballers we're about to see) is already lowering expectations for C2015?
CIRCLE: YES or NO
but...but...I though we'd "get them next time!" apparently DALPA's not even selling that any more.
Please confirm? DALPA (through you, Ed Harley, and the rest of the lowballers we're about to see) is already lowering expectations for C2015?
CIRCLE: YES or NO
but...but...I though we'd "get them next time!" apparently DALPA's not even selling that any more.
I'm surprised you actually put a number out there that you'd vote yes for. My guess is that there is no scenario or number that you would ever vote "yes" for. It's because your vote is influenced by emotion rather than using logic and being rational.
You and a lot of other angry guys here are like scorned wives going through a divorce. There is no amount of money that would make them happy. They just want their husband to suffer as they have.
That's why so many guys were angry about the current contract. Yes, we got some gains back, but Delta didn't suffer like you wanted them to. They are still making money and didn't hurt like you did over the last 14 years. The problem using your logic is that if Delta hurts financially like you want them to, then we all end up hurting again, i.e., paycuts, shrinkage, furloughs, etc...
It's just business. Our emotions shouldn't be a factor. My advice to you Purple is to get some therapy.
10-09-2013 | 04:46 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
10-09-2013 | 05:00 AM
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
From: C560XL/XLS/XLS+
10-09-2013 | 05:29 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
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10-09-2013 | 05:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
800 FAA workers to go back on the job • 7:16 AM
• The FAA recalls 800 workers that were sent home when the government shutdown started on October 1.
• The move should alleviate some concerns about the impact of the budget impasse on the sector, although with the agency's aircraft registry still closed carriers won't be able to accept new aircraft.
• The FAA recalls 800 workers that were sent home when the government shutdown started on October 1.
• The move should alleviate some concerns about the impact of the budget impasse on the sector, although with the agency's aircraft registry still closed carriers won't be able to accept new aircraft.
10-09-2013 | 05:37 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,078
Likes: 15
From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Because we got Contract 2012 done so quickly, Contract 2015 is coming soon.
10-09-2013 | 05:57 AM
Sho me da money!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
From: B25, Left
+++ Bar!!
Also, no contract is worth anything if DALPA and its pilots don't continue to put pressure and then some on the idiots in Washington. (McCain, just loves US airlines. A navy guy told me he was bitter because Delta rejected him???)
Dubai Pre-screen, Ex Im banking, Subsidized National Carriers....... are the biggest threat today.........
We just have to (unfortunately) spend $$$ to get influence....
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