Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-09-2013 | 08:20 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
FTB, hilarious as always. I just flew with a fellow Plainsman ( how come you guys have so many mascots ?) and contemporary of yours. Probably the best prepared OE I've seen in years, he flew a good jet and (double bonus) he kept up with me on layover. He had really nice things to say about you
I ran out of space to post a Auburn pic.
10-09-2013 | 08:24 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 745
Likes: 0
From: 777 Sim Instructor
Finis,
I don't entirely disagree with you, it is possible that we got pretty much what we could get last go around. I'll never know. I did pretty decent last year...I finally exceeded my previous high 3 years which were around C2k.
However, there are a few issues I take with the C12 process and outcome. It was rushed, it was sold, it included concessions, it accepted bankruptcy pay as a new baseline, etc. But this discussion is not about the past.
To carry the past forward to C15, I have difficulty seeing how we are going to do appreciably better. We lost 3b6 so now we negotiate for our airplanes and help pay for them. I see that as a management trend going forward.
I agree completely with Timbo that the first billion of DAL profit came out of our pockets.
I don't entirely disagree with you, it is possible that we got pretty much what we could get last go around. I'll never know. I did pretty decent last year...I finally exceeded my previous high 3 years which were around C2k.
However, there are a few issues I take with the C12 process and outcome. It was rushed, it was sold, it included concessions, it accepted bankruptcy pay as a new baseline, etc. But this discussion is not about the past.
To carry the past forward to C15, I have difficulty seeing how we are going to do appreciably better. We lost 3b6 so now we negotiate for our airplanes and help pay for them. I see that as a management trend going forward.
I agree completely with Timbo that the first billion of DAL profit came out of our pockets.
10-09-2013 | 08:27 AM
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
10-09-2013 | 08:55 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Originally Posted by Timbo View Post
If you guys want some REAL RAISES in 2015, we need to start getting prepared NOW! So when/where is the next Family Awareness meeting being held? I've done it before, I'd be happy to host the first one, this Friday night, at my house, there will be Torpedo's, Bushmills, sailboats and fishing. Bring the kids.
I'm retired, but I like Torpedo's, Bushmills, and sailboats. It's a short drive from St. Pete, can I come too?
If you guys want some REAL RAISES in 2015, we need to start getting prepared NOW! So when/where is the next Family Awareness meeting being held? I've done it before, I'd be happy to host the first one, this Friday night, at my house, there will be Torpedo's, Bushmills, sailboats and fishing. Bring the kids.
I'm retired, but I like Torpedo's, Bushmills, and sailboats. It's a short drive from St. Pete, can I come too?
Bring your battle star, the Delta guys will say, "Oooh, that's cool, how do I get one of those?"
10-09-2013 | 09:03 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Sorry Scambo, I managed to survive yet another bike ride! No near misses with semi-trucks but the mail man coming out of a driveway fast, with a bush obscuring our view of each other, nearly took me out!
If I had to chose a way to go, I guess it would be; shot in the back of the head, by a jealous husband....after the final stroke!
But with the trucks and old ladies in big cars, and now even the mail man gunning for me, that's probably how it will happen.
10-09-2013 | 09:13 AM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
Everything else being the same, what's the minimum (within reason) pay hike necessary? Carl
10-09-2013 | 09:15 AM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
10-09-2013 | 09:18 AM
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
I've never been a "just say No" kind of guy. That's not a strategy.
But your willingness for appeasement, in the face of record profits, after gutting our pay and retirement plans to attain those record profits, is not a strategy either, not if you ever want to restore the profession, or reclaim our pay/retirement money now being given out as Dividends.
And as Buzz points out, we are not UAL/CAL or AA/USA.
Someone has to be at the top of the pay/benefits pyramid, I think it should be Delta, not Fed Ex, not SWA. BUT... are YOU willing to strike to achieve significant gains? That's always been the real question. Most Delta guys aren't ready or willing to walk away.
Why not?
Well, what did you think that rocking chair was for?
Delta hires a risk averse personality type, that has been proven over and over. How I slipped through is anyone's guess, the Doc. must have been drunk that day. But if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and at least try to reclaim the sacrifices we have made in pay and retirement, then come time to renegotiating our next contract, well, you might as well bend over, again, and say,
"Thank you sir, may I have another?"
3%?
For the next two years?
Paid for by reducing our profit sharing by 33% in the highest profit years?
GMAFB.
But your willingness for appeasement, in the face of record profits, after gutting our pay and retirement plans to attain those record profits, is not a strategy either, not if you ever want to restore the profession, or reclaim our pay/retirement money now being given out as Dividends.
And as Buzz points out, we are not UAL/CAL or AA/USA.
Someone has to be at the top of the pay/benefits pyramid, I think it should be Delta, not Fed Ex, not SWA. BUT... are YOU willing to strike to achieve significant gains? That's always been the real question. Most Delta guys aren't ready or willing to walk away.
Why not?
Well, what did you think that rocking chair was for?
Delta hires a risk averse personality type, that has been proven over and over. How I slipped through is anyone's guess, the Doc. must have been drunk that day. But if you aren't willing to stand up for yourself, and at least try to reclaim the sacrifices we have made in pay and retirement, then come time to renegotiating our next contract, well, you might as well bend over, again, and say,
"Thank you sir, may I have another?"
3%?
For the next two years?
Paid for by reducing our profit sharing by 33% in the highest profit years?
GMAFB.
Carl
10-09-2013 | 09:21 AM
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Timbo,
I think your description of the process leading up to contract 2001 is fairly accurate but leaves out one key ingredient as to how we got the payrates then and that's the payrate at United. Didn't we pattern bargain off their rates at the time?
As I see it, we can likely negotiate to be the highest paid pilots in the industry with the next contract. What I don't see is us getting $100+ an hour more than our competition. Don't get me wrong, I would love it and I think the company could afford it now but they will refuse, we will become deadlocked and the NMB will park us a la AA.
How do we get around this dilemma? That is the question for anyone out in APC land. I'm all for huge raises but how do we get past the NMB?
Denny
I think your description of the process leading up to contract 2001 is fairly accurate but leaves out one key ingredient as to how we got the payrates then and that's the payrate at United. Didn't we pattern bargain off their rates at the time?
As I see it, we can likely negotiate to be the highest paid pilots in the industry with the next contract. What I don't see is us getting $100+ an hour more than our competition. Don't get me wrong, I would love it and I think the company could afford it now but they will refuse, we will become deadlocked and the NMB will park us a la AA.
How do we get around this dilemma? That is the question for anyone out in APC land. I'm all for huge raises but how do we get past the NMB?
Denny
Now, on the whole NMB thing. This is why we need National ALPA representation, vs. DPA. This is why we need PAC dollars. We need to politically persuade the guys who write the laws, to change them to our favor, or at least stop favoring management so heavily. Put a cap on the parking thing, make it 6 months max, then released to self help.
If that won't work, then we need National to start talking about a nation wide SOS, all ALPA carriers, for a week or so. Let the politicians drive from DC to their condos in Palm Beach. See if that gets their attention.
The problem with going down that road is, the politicians will quickly be looking to sell our jobs to China, India and the UAE, for more $$$$ into their re-election campaigns. Heck, they are looking to sell us out right now.
Why there was never a call for a National SOS after 9-11, when all our pay was being cut and our pensions being flushed is beyond me. I said back then, as soon as Delta filed bankruptcy and gutted our contract, we should have all filed for bankruptcy too. If for no other reason than to put a media spotlight on what was going on with our pay/pensions.
Until management and the politicians believe we are ready and willing to use the nuclear option, we will always be giving more than we are getting in contract negotiations. Since I've been working here (and long before I came along) every pay raise was coupled with concessions in other areas of the new contract. We are always giving away scope, benefits, work rules, manning formulas, etc. in exchange for pay rates...and as soon as the company starts losing money, we'll give the pay rates back too.
10-09-2013 | 09:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,685
Likes: 0
From: "Prof" button manipulator
First, you were the one that brought up DPA. Or perhaps you just like to talk about "holes." An oral fixation, perhaps? Or anal? :eek
GJ
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
