Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Guys - careful - Joe's going to goad all of us into getting this thread shut down.

I agree.
Back to the topics at hand.

Mod note:

Take the high road or use the ignore feature. Or, I am more than happy to close this thread if necessary to give everyone a chance to take a breath and do a little introspection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 675364)

Joe, God how I hate to get in to these debates with you, but I cannot resist this one.

A new EV pilot does not compare to a new DAL pilot. Quit kidding yourself. Now you a 16 year EV veteran have the qualifications to get hired here. I agree that there are many qualified guys at EV, but to say that the pilot group from stem to stern is the same, is just plain baloney. I gave the new hires training and I can tell you that from the first person.
Worst case here a A-10 guy needs to learn how to work a FMS, but he can fly, think, communicate, et al. Over there I could be single pilot for a four day. Rare but it happened.

Let's go back to the context of the debate...It was in reference to a Delta pilot arguing against "flowthrough"/single list because DCI pilots don't meet the same "standard"....You are a proponent of a single list, so how would you debate that point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeMerchant (Post 675377)

Joe, I am done debating you, I will not get this thread shut down. Furthermore do not put words in my mouth.

I want the flying at Delta performed by Delta pilots. The "How" will be determined if we have the support for the "IF."

I will echo what Brake chatter said yesterday as well. Watch what you say, because there are some that are on here that would love to sue us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 675380)

I want the flying at Delta performed by Delta pilots. The "How" will be determined if we have the support for the "IF."

I, along with the ASA and CMR MECs, wanted that too back in 2000....

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfaromeo (Post 675278)

I know I can't guarantee anything, that is why I qualified it. I have been around long enough to make an educated guess. If you get 40 calls, you have spoken with 1% of your council. A rep will almost always get contacted by people that have a very high investment in a certain issue. That is why the scientific polling is a much better view of your pilot's opinions. A rep should also get out there and seek out opinions rather than waiting for people to contact him. That way you can also hear from the "silent majority".

If a rep only responds to the emails and calls he gets he will not really be doing his job, especially in a monster council like ATL. The vocal minority really doesn't represent the group.

I do agree with all of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat (Post 675110)

I find it amusing that you can't hear the smallest bit of condencention in the "tone" of your post, but you quick paint the pilot group with the broad label of being emotional.

I DID NOT paint the pilot group or label them as emotional. I pointed out that emotion is not a strategy. Anger isn't, and hope isn't either. This is business. I haven't seen an emotional strategy succeed yet. Have you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat (Post 675110)

Will you answer one question for me? What did we gain by giving up on the 70 seat "line in the sand"?

A contract. We also prevented the possible rejection of our contract by the 3 man panel of neutrals. The law was stacked fairly heavily in management's favor, but we introduced enough doubt into the outcome that we were able to achieve the leading deal for a carrier in bankruptcy.

I know, that's like saying of all the turds in a punchbowl, ours floated highest...:p

but it turned out to be critically important. Without that deal (and its scope clause) Doug Parker would be our CEO. You would probably be unemployed.

Every other group that went through bankruptcy did worse than we did. Every other group that took it to the judge got their contract rejected. Every single one. NWA AFA made sure that the law of the land didn't allow the right to strike after a contract rejection with their boneheaded play.

It came down to contract, yes or no...and history wasn't in our favor. NWA was working Compass. USAirways had almost no scope left. That was what management would present to the panel. The economics at that time did not allow Delta to operate the 76 seaters on mainline and make it work economically. (I hear the hissing and booing already, but those were the facts). In my view, the panel would have thought management's request reasonable based on the competitive circumstance. You may have a different view.

That's what we gained by giving up on the 70 seat line. Scope that protected your job.