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Mod note:
This might be a good time to, once again, mention the ignore user function. Click on the users screen name, click on "view public profile", click on "add user to your ignore list". |
Originally Posted by JoeMerchant
(Post 675237)
Were Chicago&Southern pilots selected to "Delta standards"? Were Northeast pilots selected to "Delta standards"? How about Western pilots? NWA? Compass?
ASA has never had a fatal crash that was caused by pilot error. I don't believe Skywest has either. Can Delta say the same thing? Just as a point of common courtesy, I will ask that dead pilots or passengers not be brought up in this thread as a point of argument. Anyone who believes they are immune hasn't thought about it very much. Thanks. |
Thank you Jungle and Vagabond.
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 675118)
I am not slowplay but what we got for the 76 seat issue was not having our whole contract rejected and then allowing 200 79 seaters. Bankruptcy is not a lot about choices it is a lot about having your rear end handed to you by a court. Look at the cast of characters that ate it in our bankruptcy:
Lease holders including ILFC, the largest owner of aircraft in the world Boeing US Bank American Express Numerous hedge funds Boston Airport Authority CVG Airport Well, just about every airport in the country Delta shareholders who got a big goose egg out it This list can go on and on. What did the owners of our MD-11's get in bankruptcy? A nice how-de-do from the judge and a request from to Delta to let us know where to drop off the jets we just threw in their lap. Everyone set really high goals to achieve in our 1113 process. Of course they would communicate those goals to the pilots. What would you have preferred, "We'll do our best." In the end, like pretty much everyone everywhere, DALPA fell short of their goals. If you look at the company's original ask in 1113, you will see they fell very short of their goals, in fact the end result was much closer to our side than theirs. If you can't understand that people set high goals and then didn't achieve 100% then I don't know what to say. Everyone was real disappointed with how things turned out, it is just I haven't seen a lot of suggestions about how to do better. I hope you noticed the $2 billion in bankruptcy returns we got. That pretty much exceeded everyone's goals. If you can't get over your disappointment then there is nothing to say except you are being emotional. Life is full of disappointments. Move on. Bankruptcy is a pretty big hammer and you are not realistic if you think your toes won't get smashed a little too. Here's where you took a sharp left turn..... Is trust an emotional thing? I don't know, perhaps that something all of us have to answer, but it is something we need as a union to get business done. So if you want to call me emotional, because someone violated my trust with no explanation, then that's your prerogative, however, I'm not the only one out here. So as friendly and professionally as I can possibly say to you my friend, perhaps that's something for you to ponder. Respectfully, TC |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 675414)
I DID NOT paint the pilot group or label them as emotional. I pointed out that emotion is not a strategy. Anger isn't, and hope isn't either. This is business. I haven't seen an emotional strategy succeed yet. Have you?
A contract. We also prevented the possible rejection of our contract by the 3 man panel of neutrals. The law was stacked fairly heavily in management's favor, but we introduced enough doubt into the outcome that we were able to achieve the leading deal for a carrier in bankruptcy. I know, that's like saying of all the turds in a punchbowl, ours floated highest...:p but it turned out to be critically important. Without that deal (and its scope clause) Doug Parker would be our CEO. You would probably be unemployed. Every other group that went through bankruptcy did worse than we did. Every other group that took it to the judge got their contract rejected. Every single one. NWA AFA made sure that the law of the land didn't allow the right to strike after a contract rejection with their boneheaded play. It came down to contract, yes or no...and history wasn't in our favor. NWA was working Compass. USAirways had almost no scope left. That was what management would present to the panel. The economics at that time did not allow Delta to operate the 76 seaters on mainline and make it work economically. (I hear the hissing and booing already, but those were the facts). In my view, the panel would have thought management's request reasonable based on the competitive circumstance. You may have a different view. That's what we gained by giving up on the 70 seat line. Scope that protected your job. I truly believe our union could do a more effective job with it's communications with the pilot group. TC |
Originally Posted by Tomcat
(Post 675497)
I truly believe our union could do a more effective job with it's communications with the pilot group.
TC In my opinion, anything would be better than the watered-down, mind-numbing, propaganda I get in my mailbox once a month, it's about one step above dropping pamphlets from an airplane. |
Originally Posted by DeadHead
(Post 675526)
Personally I would prefer a "more specific" monthly newsletter from ALPA that actually discussed information, issues, and ideas currently being discussed by our leadership. While I'm sure there are restrictions on what can be put out there, so to speak, I think it would be helpful to actually know what exactly our union is fighting and negotiating for.
In my opinion, anything would be better than the watered-down, mind-numbing, propaganda I get in my mailbox once a month, it's about one step above dropping pamphlets from an airplane. |
Emotion
Since some think emotion doesn't have its place, I had to get some support to convey how I define emotion, since some are trying to define it for me.
Michael Stocker (philosopher) stressed the pervasiveness of emotion: emotions are not merely episodes, disruptive or otherwise, but include states and experiences that give color, meaning and motivation to the whole of the vast range of actions of which we are capable, including intellectual action. They are both sources of value in themselves, and sometimes constitute epistemic avenues to value. I couldn't have expressed it better if I spent all day trying. Of course raw unchecked and unguided emotion can do harm but that is not what I am talking about. I am sure others recognize this difference. To be painted as angry, no credibility, emotional all because some strongly disagree with others is disrespecful. And I have no agenda other than the success of this airline and this pilot group. I think we should have taken some risks and this MEC doesn't see it that way. Real simple disagreement. Dr. Stocker sums it up quite nicely what I feel we need more of. Please don't put words in my mouth. Dawgs |
DAL bidding question - If you bid a reserve line with a week of vacation in the middle of the month will this affect your bidding parameters? For example, could I bid for one X day in front, but touching my vacation? I am also assuming the vacation does not count as an X day block.
Thanks Scoop |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 675536)
Good point, but remember that the Roar is a massive publication, and it takes time and money to produce. I would be more for a blast e-mail. I know 25% of guys do not update their e-mail see we need to stuff 4000 boxes with letters as well.
Maybe they could let us all know there is a special MEC meeting tomorrow because the company has approached them with some sort of proposal on the AE process. Give us the info you have then send out another e-mail before the end of the day after the meeting so we know what is happening. I would rather know about that than having them let me know to call scheduling to have my X days restored......again. |
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