Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
12-08-2013, 03:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 617
Does this mean as a commuter that you're pretty much on SC for the 1st and realistically need to be in base? i.e. could they put a 7am show on your schedule that you couldn't commute in for after 1500?
12-08-2013, 04:09 PM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
What Einstein in the gubbamint came up with this crapola? Oh wait.. gubbamint... nevermind...
12-08-2013, 04:15 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
I don't think its a coincidence that Dickson dropped this deuce on DALPA's desk right when we have no MEC Chairman.
Whoever takes over on Tuesday is going to have to make a tough call in his first hour on the job.
I hope he gets it right. The whole pilot group is watching.
Whoever takes over on Tuesday is going to have to make a tough call in his first hour on the job.
I hope he gets it right. The whole pilot group is watching.
Otherwise, he'd be a King, and we can't have that now, can we?
12-08-2013, 04:16 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Re:
and:
How does management use their leverage without violating the status quo? The company has the option to do some of those things, but they haven't. We have the option of not flying overtime, and we certainly have the obligation of not flying sick. But when current numbers diverge from past practices, injunctions are sought, and obtained.
...however the company has the ability to push back and push back hard. At a minimum I expect with no agreement every reserve will sit the max number of short calls needed or not. No reserves will ever be released early. Reserves will not be allowed to deviate. Out of position reserves will be dealt with harshly. Rotation construction will be changed to facilitate reserve assignments increasing line holder work days...
How does management use their leverage without violating the status quo? The company has the option to do some of those things, but they haven't. We have the option of not flying overtime, and we certainly have the obligation of not flying sick. But when current numbers diverge from past practices, injunctions are sought, and obtained.
12-08-2013, 04:20 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
12-08-2013, 04:24 PM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
That part of our contract (the last non-fly day schedule check) is, shall we say, "non-operative" starting on January 1st because it does not allow for the new 10 hour prospective rest thing in FAR 117.
12-08-2013, 04:25 PM
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,728
12-08-2013, 04:31 PM
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
So when will DALPA seek such an injunction?
12-08-2013, 05:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
I'm trying to follow the thread, and this LC issue is very convoluted, IMO.
1) Clearly, SD is poking us in the eye. Again. If you look at how this plays politically, ALPA needs to be seen reacting. This is no time to stay humble.
2) In terms of the actual contract, it's hard for me to fully process the ramifications. For starters, do we agree about the language that's in play? Best I can determine, the pertinent Sections are 23. S. 5/6. If anyone can cut-and-paste them, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't.
If I understand correctly, the gist of the issue is that rest for Reserve is not retroactive, and must be acknowledged before it starts. This means a LC pilot would have to acknowledge an assignment that's 12 hours in the future after 2 hours, while the PWA says you can wait until 3 hours prior to show. Under 23.S.5.G.2.b, it says that if the Company doesn't elect to contact you (something you owe them "at any time while on LC" under 23.S.5.a), then your rest can start at 9 hours out, and your acknowledgment must occur during that break, NLT 3 hours out).
Evidently, the new FAR makes acknowledgment 3 hours prior to show illegal (can't be assigned less than 10 hours out, can't be acknowledged after 10 hours out). We have the right to do something in our contract that's no longer legal after January 1st. You would think that makes it null and void. The PWA can be more restrictive than the FAR's, but in this case it's less restrictive.
Regardless, 23.S.5.a seems to say (which was a big surprise to me) that we are in fact required to available for contact at all times during our LC window (but not during rest). It doesn't specify in what way you must be available for contact, and who chooses whether a telephone contact is made, versus a DBMS assignment.
Overall, I'm not seeing the language that lets us exert leverage, nor do I see the language that says the company has the right to reach us by phone. Which means I'm not completely seeing where their leverage is, either. Again, 5.a, 5.e., and 5.g. are surprisingly vague on whether it is the company or the pilot that has the right to determine whether an assignment is made electronically, or via phone.
Bottom line, it's not SD's place to give us an interpretation of what we can and cannot do under the PWA. It's not up to him to create procedures that modify the PWA, in a way that suits his needs. We don't have contract language that says we must acknowledge an assignment 10 hours before show. He might have language that says we must be available via phone any time we're on LC (not rest).
1) Clearly, SD is poking us in the eye. Again. If you look at how this plays politically, ALPA needs to be seen reacting. This is no time to stay humble.
2) In terms of the actual contract, it's hard for me to fully process the ramifications. For starters, do we agree about the language that's in play? Best I can determine, the pertinent Sections are 23. S. 5/6. If anyone can cut-and-paste them, I'd appreciate it. I couldn't.
If I understand correctly, the gist of the issue is that rest for Reserve is not retroactive, and must be acknowledged before it starts. This means a LC pilot would have to acknowledge an assignment that's 12 hours in the future after 2 hours, while the PWA says you can wait until 3 hours prior to show. Under 23.S.5.G.2.b, it says that if the Company doesn't elect to contact you (something you owe them "at any time while on LC" under 23.S.5.a), then your rest can start at 9 hours out, and your acknowledgment must occur during that break, NLT 3 hours out).
Evidently, the new FAR makes acknowledgment 3 hours prior to show illegal (can't be assigned less than 10 hours out, can't be acknowledged after 10 hours out). We have the right to do something in our contract that's no longer legal after January 1st. You would think that makes it null and void. The PWA can be more restrictive than the FAR's, but in this case it's less restrictive.
Regardless, 23.S.5.a seems to say (which was a big surprise to me) that we are in fact required to available for contact at all times during our LC window (but not during rest). It doesn't specify in what way you must be available for contact, and who chooses whether a telephone contact is made, versus a DBMS assignment.
Overall, I'm not seeing the language that lets us exert leverage, nor do I see the language that says the company has the right to reach us by phone. Which means I'm not completely seeing where their leverage is, either. Again, 5.a, 5.e., and 5.g. are surprisingly vague on whether it is the company or the pilot that has the right to determine whether an assignment is made electronically, or via phone.
Bottom line, it's not SD's place to give us an interpretation of what we can and cannot do under the PWA. It's not up to him to create procedures that modify the PWA, in a way that suits his needs. We don't have contract language that says we must acknowledge an assignment 10 hours before show. He might have language that says we must be available via phone any time we're on LC (not rest).
12-08-2013, 05:12 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: DAL FO
Posts: 2,165
Yeah I knew that. Thanks. If I check at 15:00 though and there is nothing there, the next POSSIBLE time they could get me is 12:01 since I don't have to answer the phone after that time (as a regular line holder). But I am beginning to see the angst that you can now be called any time after midnight and assigned a trip or S/C...
What Einstein in the gubbamint came up with this crapola? Oh wait.. gubbamint... nevermind...
What Einstein in the gubbamint came up with this crapola? Oh wait.. gubbamint... nevermind...
If you aren't on SC or assigned a trip, then LC begins at midnight. They can then call you anytime and assign you a trip 12 hours out, or 10 hours and then SC.
What am I missing in your question?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
