As discussed before, MIT has no metric to breakout international 3 and 4 pilot operations. So when the math is done a 2 pilot SW rotation worth 20 block hours = 2 pilot flying 20 hours but at DAL a 4 pilot 20 hour rotation would would only show each pilot flying 10 hours.

The folks at MIT may be smart but their just looking at raw numbers and without data on which flight are crewed above 2 pilots (which I don't believe is reported anywhere)., the data is flawed. As I recall the formula used is (block hours flown) X (2 pilots) / total pilots. Delta does break down pilots by aircraft type so it the math could be done by fleet.

Somewhat happened last trip for me. On the last leg (SEA-SLC) we had a rolling MX issue and the jet was taken out of service. Instead of a deadhead back to base and replace us with another crew, they put us up for 12 hrs and had us show at 5AM to fly the jet back. :eek:

We were back at base about 17 hrs past scheduled release. They could have got us back to base that night, but being a weekend staffed with no RES, we got the short end of the stick!

I hate losing a day off!!:mad:

The Air Train still stops at Terminal 2. It was always a stop for 2/3. They just took out the bridge over to 3.

At least you guys ended up with an extra 5:15 for it. Regardless though, like you said, you ended up losing an off day.
I've had days like that as well where we were dealing with a rolling maintenance delay pushing back our whole day. I've had them drop one leg and substitute it with two more instead of putting us on the next leg. I realize it's all legit per our contract I just think the company is afforded way too much leeway with REG pilots on their last day of a rotation.


Since I'm in a whiny mood, anyone else think it's somewhat inappropriate for the crew lounges to charge $1.00 for a Keurig coffee? I know I sound like a cheapskate, but each capsule does not cost $1.00. Beyond that, for everything this pilot group has done in the nature of Delta's benefit you would think offering free coffee in the crew lounges would be the very least they could do. I don't even like Keurig coffee, I just think it he gesture would have been nice.

Ok thanks,

Exactly. The MIT data is flawed. It's just raw numbers with no context and does not provide meaningful information for a comparison of how much we make/number of days worked versus how much pilots at another airline make/number of days worked.

Of course management is going to use something like this to their advantage as best they can. The guy who headed up the MIT project is a former airline consultant with an expertise in lowering employee costs. It's natural that his "report" would be slanted that way. What's really alarming is that apparently DALPA wants to hang their hat on this same selective, out of context information! :eek:

This has always been allowed under both the old and new rest rules. Under the old rules if you add a relief pilot you could fly 12 hour days with no restrictions on legs. The new rules allow something similiar but reduce the time for the number of legs. Lots of airlines fly turns like this with relief pilots. They will continue to do that under 117.
At Delta our contract prohibits this practice unless a rest seat meeting minimum contractual standards is installed. The cost to put that type of seat into the entire A320, 737 fleet has kept Delta from making the switch. Instead Delta chooses to double crew those flights. One crew flies and the other DH's. We are the only airline doing that. Everyone else puts the relief guy in a passenger seat. Some airlines use coach others first class.

I can only imagine that some of our posts like this and "The Insulting Turkey Sandwich Fiasco" end up on the pilot lounge bulletin boards of airlines all over America, with appropriate comments penned in. :p

ALPA has the best airline financial team in the world. They are considered the gold standard by both unions and management. They are so good that airline management teams hire them to unravel their own finances. We use their data and not MIT's. You will note however that the MIT data does break out narrow bodies in many categories and the Delta small narrow body block hour cost is 911 an hour. I posted that. The effect of 3 and 4 man ops pushes up the block cost overall.

This. I would use caution using data provided for "public" consuption to do math or establish any kind of position.

Personally, I want the bean counters, experienced in my industry (and not just in an academic sense), who work for me, to provide the numbers.

Anything else is like asking the IRS to do your taxes for you.

Nu