Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 682060)

I agree that we have some serious cosmetic issues. But the bigger issue is, DAL is increasing flights into ATL because we "gotta protect ATL". I understand that. But I also understand the congestion this is bringing. Not to mention, your passengers arrive at Concourse T and has 30 minutes to eat, use the bathroom, and get to Concourse C. Sure its their fault for having short connections between flights, but so far on my last two trips, I've consistently been late to the gate thanks to arrival ground taxi delays.

JFK is ATL times 1,000. JFK is confusing to me and I fly out of there as one of my domiciles. I really hate answering questions from passengers because I simply don't have the answers.

LGA isn't much better. I welcome the increase in flying there; however, I think it will ultimately make DAL look worse statistically overall since more of our flights will be permanently delayed which is ops normal for LGA.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 682022)

Alright I will respond to a few of these points as I see it.

JFK:
DAL is working on a few plans for the issues of JFK. The AMR terminal many not be the cheapest option, but it is the easiest so naturally it is the first choice. If they cannot get that they move in to plans B, C, and D. With regard to the tear down of three, moving in to four and making a bridge from 4 to 2, that requires a lot of money. DAL is smart and does not want to pay for something and then have to pay the Port Authority rent for what they just paid to have build. They much prefer to have the Port Authority underwrite the bonds for this. We are dragging our feet to get them to totally commit to that. If they do, then we will proceed. The company knows this is one of the biggest issues for us and is addressing it accordingly. RA made the board members travel out of JFK after the meeting this last summer so they all knew how bad it is.

LGA:
Ugly fact is that when the number guys crunch all of the numbers, blowing a half a billion dollars on metal and glass in LGA just will not pay for it self. Passengers will complain about anything when they are living it, but 99%+ of them will not give the quality of the terminal a second thought when purchasing the ticket. What is at the for front is time, price and loyalty programs. DAL sees this in their data and will spend money accordingly. If does not mean that LGA will not get a face lift, but a new terminal is not where we need to spend money. Simply put the ROI is just not there.
Better schedules, another terminal with closer proximity to ours are the thing that will make the LGA experience better. Those things are being done, and will greatly improve the LGA experience.
The type of capital outlay that you are talking about is planned but not for some time.

LAX:
We have many issue in LAX. The biggest on is that our Code Share with Alaska is just plain inconvenient. They know this. Our two terminals there are a mess, and they are looking at a move. When and if it is a possibility are being looked at. If it does happen it will be a huge improvement. There are a few locations that are in fact being looked at. The Alaska code is working well for connecting to our flights.
I know people want more details, but for now that is all that can be given. Things are overall fairly vague, except the fact that the locations are being identified and a time line is being created.


They see the infrastructure as an issue. They recognize it, but we cannot make capital outlays of billions and billion of dollars when the economy is this way. DAL is looking for short to medium term fixes that will make the experience better for the passenger. They know the issues, and hopefully we will see the results of years and years of planning start to unfold.

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 682246)

ATL was a great facility in the early to mid 70s, its way to conjested and has no room for expansion...walked from one end of A to the other, no moving sidewalk and it looked like there was only one monitor for the entire concourse.

We can't keep put more traffic into an already overloaded facility, we now have more hubs to off load on, as far as protecting ATL...classic RA, said the same thing when he was up North...but substitue MSP/DTW and NRT.

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 682246)

ATL was a great facility in the early to mid 70s, its way to conjested and has no room for expansion...walked from one end of A to the other, no moving sidewalk and it looked like there was only one monitor for the entire concourse.

We can't keep put more traffic into an already overloaded facility, we now have more hubs to off load on, as far as protecting ATL...classic RA, said the same thing when he was up North...but substitue MSP/DTW and NRT.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 682258)

I hate to defend ATL, but I don't think it's "way too congested". It feels very busy, but it's the kind of busy that's constantly moving and flowing (IROPS excluded). It's a simple design, even if it feels a little overwhelming because of its' sheer size. You need to know what concourse you're going to, but most big airports require a change of concourse for connections. There are fairly straightforward ways to get there, and decent signeage.

What it mostly lacks is courteous and coherent people to helps smooth out the bumps, answer questions correctly, and serve food in a way that wouldn't embarass a Soviet clerk. But no airport design could ever compensate for that. I guess there is a minimum stay requirement to experience Southern hospitality, and I've never reached it...:rolleyes:

I haven't seen the NW terminal at DTW, of course, so maybe ATL suffers from the comparison. Then again, there is always CDG to make ATL look great.

Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 682259)

I agree with you. ATL is cramped and there are too many people crammed into limited space. During peak periods, it is crazy. And I say this as an experience ATL patron. Imagine you are elderly, handicapped, or young. ATL is intimidating to our passengers.

They need to relocate T concourse about 300 yards away from where it is in the direction of the parking garages. Once the new concourse is complete, demolish the old T. Build a new Ramp 1 that will have three lanes of traffic to it. Once that is done, build a new A. Once A is complete, tear down the old A. Then rebuild Ramp 2 and work your way down accordingly so when you hit the international ramp, everything has more room to breath. And for the love of God, they need tunnels connecting the concourse extremities with one another.

But, we are talking huge $$$ that nobody has.

Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 682258)

I hate to defend ATL, but I don't think it's "way too congested". It feels very busy, but it's the kind of busy that's constantly moving and flowing (IROPS excluded). It's a simple design, even if it feels a little overwhelming because of its' sheer size. You need to know what concourse you're going to, but most big airports require a change of concourse for connections. There are fairly straightforward ways to get there, and decent signeage.

What it mostly lacks is courteous and coherent people to helps smooth out the bumps, answer questions correctly, and serve food in a way that wouldn't embarass a Soviet clerk. But no airport design could ever compensate for that. I guess there is a minimum stay requirement to experience Southern hospitality, and I've never reached it...:rolleyes:

I haven't seen the NW terminal at DTW, of course, so maybe ATL suffers from the comparison. Then again, there is always CDG to make ATL look great.

Originally Posted by Tinpusher007 (Post 682260)

The DTW terminal is simpler design than ATL in that it has one HUGE main concourse for domestic mainline and int'l and then a smaller one for regional. The main concourse is about a mile long with very high ceilings (taller than a 747) it is also very wide with bi-directional people movers in the middle and an over-head tram running end to end. The regional concourse is similar minus the tram but is still more spacious than A nd B at ATL. DTW is probably the nicest hub facility in the US.