Good point.

... and I just wanted to point out that virtually all the RJ Captains would have preferred to have a Delta number and get furloughed while you continued working ... and today while you enjoyed uninterrupted employment they would enjoy 12+ years of longevity instead of 5, or the thousands still waiting ....

When they tried, the Delta pilots termed it a "seniority grab." But lets look at the truth. At ASA we had negotiated special seniority provisions which allowed concurrent seniority for Delta's bid restricted second officers who needed experience to upgrade to a command seat at Delta. Later, when furloughs happened we negotiated preferential hiring (for our admittedly inferior jobs) for any Delta pilots who wanted them ... and we were damn glad to get the great Delta pilots who did come over. We tried to help and assist the Delta pilots whenever they had a need we could help with.

ALPA merger policy was then ... status quo. By pay or equipment, either measure was a staple. Examples abound, like that of Pan Am Express, which was "merged" if you will by simply extending the Pan Am list down to capture the Ransome (Express) pilots. A couple of those Ransome guys eventually retired from Delta.

Years later, with ALPA merger policy significantly modified the Northwest merger introduced new equities into the mix, like the protection of advancement by speculated future attrition. Even so, the result was not date of hire. I've never heard a Delta pilot claim the Northwest merger was a "seniority grab." Although as a matter of the methodology employed the Northwest pilots were (understandably) much more aggressive than anything the ASA pilots could have mounted.

I saw the ASA / Comair proposal which never quite made the light of day. Imagine if you will, a zipper. You had the ASA and CMR pilots on each end of the unattached bottom. They remained within their current positions on their own list (unless the Company chose to merge the operation). They would also have a Delta system seniority number which they could use, if they wanted, to bid up into the Delta system when they had the seniority to hold a Delta job (MD88B, 727FO, whatever was most junior). I thought it a perfectly workable system which would have benefitted you by you rightfully taking a Delta job (admittedly on a smaller jet than you probably would have preferred).

Our MEC did not fail. They reached a compromise.

It is easy for me to take one area of a very complex agreement in isolation while ignoring the fact that above all else, our survey results are SHOW ME THE MONEY!

Delta Connection is a large and (depending how they allocate costs) very profitable business. Delta needed to re-fleet DCI. That need created bargaining capital for our MEC which they used to give multiple constituencies the improvements they sought. Reserve is so much better that now we junior losers can't even hold reserve anymore. With no changes in bidding status many of us are seeing a 20 to 25% year on year pay increase.

... and we are recovering flying. Upgrades are beginning to filter down and will pick up momentum.

While I voted against C2012, on balance I believe our those who worked on it did a good job.

Disregard.........

I'd like an answer to this:
How much will mainline give up (and how much are they willing to give) to bring scope in house? There are older guys that don't have long until retirement. That group is the majority of mainline guys right now. Think they'd be willing to jump on this idea? The younger crowd has learned their lessons with scope.

FTB's kids call him "momma"? :confused:

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Hell, I'm still doing that! :eek::D

You call FTB momma?? :confused: Wait.....I'm confused? :D

Well...in C2012 we gave up 33% of our profit sharing money, just to bring a bunch of 50 seat RJ flying 'in house', to the 717. No Old Guy already at Delta is going to bid the 717, but they are hiring RJ pilots right now to fly them.

C2012 didn't do squat for my retirement funding, or any other old guy's retirement plan, so I guess we'll have to stay to 65....:rolleyes:

I already paid for Scope once, in 1993, when I was bumped off my MD88 Capt. seat and I was replaced by an RJ Capt. Now I've paid for scope again.

Oh, and what do you think helped put Delta into bankruptcy?

Could it be the debt that Leo the CEO ran up buying 500 RJ's?

The "Old Guys" 42% pay cut and lost retirement funding has been paying that debt off too.

Anyone got info on security issue happening in ANC today?