Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by NuGuy (Post 683987)

Heyas Bar,

Right back at ya bro! But we can respectfully disagree on this point. Treating ALPA as a business has led to too close an association to the methods of management that we all revile (well, most of us).

I'm not saying it can't be a well run, efficient operation, but I think we've lost sight of the customers...the line pilot. They're more than customers, they're stockholders and the people that write the friggin' checks. These are the guys the reps work for, and despite claims to the contrary, the MEC officers work for the reps, not the other way around.

Some of the discussions on scope from some have sounded like a used car salesman selling me the TruCoat on a new car. "See, the more flying we give away is better for the bottom line because you get a rebate on each flight they do and blah blah blah blah...."

I'm with you %100 on the scope issue. I think the JV and all the associated hoopla has done service to the argument because it's opened the eyes of the senior guys and has made them realize that NO flying is safe if it is a bargaining chip.

I suspect that if we manage to retain the 100 seat flying through some kind of replacement aircraft, this is how it will be couched, with further scope givebacks. The argument will be framed as a win because "we saved the 100 seat flying" despite the fact that it was ours to begin with.

Nu

After doing union work, I have seen many "saviors" appear, those that are going to "be tough", "say no", etc. etc. Usually they end up going two ways. Most end up discovering that it is easier to pound your chest on the webboards when you have no responsibility for your decisions than it is to actually have the careers of thousands of pilots resting on your decisions. When they discover the true responsibility they now have for their actions, they learn that it is not easy, that compromises have to happen, that wanting something and being able to get something are two different things. Reality bites.

Some never get it. They usually spin off on their own, voting no to everything and offering nothing of substance to the equation. Some of those then diminish the organization by writing self righteous pap and sending it out to their pilots. These people usually flash in and out of the organization and are quickly forgotten by everyone, including their webboard cheerleaders. They leave behind no actual work or any contributions to the organization. Many times they show up back on the webboards trying to revive those good old days when they were in the spotlight.

Everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots. In case you didn't notice, the pilots in the union work under the same contract as you, so there is pretty much a built in motivation to get a better contract. With the exception of some guys who seem to hang in their forever, most pilots work in the union for a while and then head back to the line. By the way, line flying is a much better job.

Listening to the pilots and being able to accomplish 100% of their requests are two different things. If I told my rep I wanted to double my pay rate tomorrow what should he answer back? Is he not listening to me, or is he just dealing in the real world?

I highly recommend that anyone who wants to run the union start out working on a committee. I find it pretty funny that someone will say, "union work is not worth my time, unless I am the boss". I don't get that. If you are serious about changing things, then you need to roll up your sleeves and get to work on the nuts and bolts of the operation, before you try to run the show.

All true, its always easier to say no than yes. Good post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 684119)

They usually publish a future category list soon after the bid is published where you can find how how far you got pushed down. ;-)

Do they publish that in Engligh? Or is it in Martian, also? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 684152)

Do they publish that in Engligh? Or is it in Martian, also? :D

No, just Southern. It's easier to understand the AE if you read it with a southern drawl. :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by iaflyer (Post 684158)

No, just Southern. It's easier to understand the AE if you read it with a southern drawl. :p

Thanks ia. You gave me my first laugh for the day. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 684116)

Holy Cow. Learning some of this South stuff for me is like catching fish barehanded. Once I think I've caught it and tell everyone, I realize I never had it at all. In about an hour I'll convince myself again that the AE shows I'm 8 numbers senior to where I was. The bottom line is that I know nothing. :)

New K Now

if you drop a car battery, a used one, into the water it becomes a whole lot easier to catch fish with your bare hands. :cool: Its called "fishing... in the dark... at your neighbors restocked trout pond."

now that you've seen the South AE, how does it compare to the North's monthly system?
...
And I think I just saw the PIT hotel on tv with the G20 protests.

Wow. It's quiet today.

Forgot to bid,

Guess your avatar's FO didn't like his CA? :p :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 684116)

Learning some of this South stuff for me is like catching fish barehanded.

It's called "noodling" get with the program. :D

GO BIG ORANGE

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 684191)

now that you've seen the South AE, how does it compare to the North's monthly system?
....

I think that there are pros and cons for both sides. I really like the fact that with the AE, you have a lot more intel as to number of positions initially being displaced and the number of initial vacancies. On the north side we never saw any numbers. I also like the idea of using a VD to get somewhere else.

That said, I don't like the flexibility for the company on when you go to training. I like the ability to use my seniority and bid a different piece of equipment or base and know before I bid what month or two I will be in training, before I put my bid in.

One question: Assume you were the bottom person in a position that is going to get displaced. Is there a chance that you can get stuck in that bottom most spot, even if you want to get displaced or get an award? In other words, say I am the absolute bottom MSP755B and the company says that they are going to reduce the category by 10 pilots, if there are 10 pilots senior to me that have a VD in, will they get the new award before the bottom pilot would get an AE or MD?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1234 (Post 684268)

One question: Assume you were the bottom person in a position that is going to get displaced. Is there a chance that you can get stuck in that bottom most spot, even if you want to get displaced or get an award? In other words, say I am the absolute bottom MSP755B and the company says that they are going to reduce the category by 10 pilots, if there are 10 pilots senior to me that have a VD in, will they get the new award before the bottom pilot would get an AE or MD?

It depends. The VD pilots would have to be able to use the otherwise MD'd pilots seniority to move. If there were enough folks moved that there were no other outstanding empty positions possible (no AE and no requirement to displace) then the bottom guy would remain the bottom guy. That's a highly unlikely scenario.