Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 684429)
... add to that the C44 resolution asking to study and report back on the benefits of unity... instead there has been no study (acknowledged) and our Chairman has stated "Compass will not be merged" before he even meets with the MEC next month.
It is an MEC issue if they go along (and so far they have). It seems like we are quick to figure out the benefits of more RJ's, but slow (to the point of outright refusal) to evaluate what good could come from Delta pilots performing our flying. Sorry to keep coming back to this, but it really is an issue our MEC refuses to deal with constructively. However...his small jet scope stance is terrible. And like you, I couldn't believe that he admitted to already giving up on Compass. Freaking rediculous. I'm still fuming about what he said during that section of the briefing. |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 684280)
Originally Posted by 1234 http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif One question: Assume you were the bottom person in a position that is going to get displaced. Is there a chance that you can get stuck in that bottom most spot, even if you want to get displaced or get an award? In other words, say I am the absolute bottom MSP755B and the company says that they are going to reduce the category by 10 pilots, if there are 10 pilots senior to me that have a VD in, will they get the new award before the bottom pilot would get an AE or MD? It looks like that is exactly what happened in three categories. MSP330a, DTW330b, and MEM320b only had VDs. DTW744b and MSP330b only had one MD each with all the rest VDs. |
Never mind .....
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Bucking Bar, Every pilot I know after listening to the actual facts on the RJ grievance in the end feels it was handled well. I have listened to several hard core guys say how scope was sold out. Then the reasons behind the agreement were explained and they all said. Well I guess I would have done the same thing. You are aware that had we won the grievance in a slam dunk that at the time it was projected the company would have access to the additional airframes in less then a year anyway. Your aware that had we won it was still unlikely the arbitrator would have ordered the removal of the seats. Are you aware that with the agreement reached we get to use our interpretation of the disputed clause in all future RJ resets which is big long term. We also got a small amount of increase furlough protection. Given that we had almost no upside in winning the grievance and a huge downside in losing you believe DALPA miss handled it?
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 684445)
Former Reps who dealt with similar representational situations successfully were not consulted despite the fact they volunteered
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 684445)
That's a proactive plan to recapture flying and unify Delta flying, making us stronger. It might not be the best plan and I'm eager to support alternatives that have a chance of working.
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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 684462)
Bucking Bar, Every pilot I know after listening to the actual facts on the RJ grievance in the end feels it was handled well. I have listened to several hard core guys say how scope was sold out. Then the reasons behind the agreement were explained and they all said. Well I guess I would have done the same thing. You are aware that had we won the grievance in a slam dunk that at the time it was projected the company would have access to the additional airframes in less then a year anyway. Your aware that had we won it was still unlikely the arbitrator would have ordered the removal of the seats. Are you aware that with the agreement reached we get to use our interpretation of the disputed clause in all future RJ resets which is big long term. We also got a small amount of increase furlough protection. Given that we had almost no upside in winning the grievance and a huge downside in losing you believe DALPA miss handled it?
Again, it comes down to having written scope language that defines what we don't perform instead of what we do fly. There is no reason to belabor this point since everything I'm hearing about the JV language is an improvement over the US Air based scope language that defines our small jet flying. I hope the concepts of the JV language are appropriately modified and applied to make other scope language more certain. IMHO management came at that scope issue in bad faith, but there is so much money obligated on this small jet outsourcing that it is nigh impossible to stop one management starts investing millions in these things. Chairman Moak and our Association did the right thing - fighting to protect our contract. |
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 684467)
[/list]There has been plenty of dialogue. There was an extensive presentation at the previous 44 meeting on scope, and a lengthy discussion on the issue. Every meeting that Moak has been to has discussed (Q&A at a minimum) scope. You disagree with the conclusion that has been drawn. Fine, that's a part of the process. But it doesn't mean there hasn't been extensive dialogue and communication.
These debates are best held in private, or over a friendly cup of coffee on a Saturday morning. (sent via PM)
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 684467)
Putting flying that you don't own (scope) on your seniority list makes Delta pilots hostages. Bad idea. There is no leverage to get Compass on to our list while reducing an equivalent number of permitted 76 seaters. I'd like to see two people that were in the room, or even one from the management side.;) Hauenstein has categorically denied looking at Embraers.
I agree with you (as evidenced by RAH's 190 rates) that the E-170 rates are dangerous to our negotiating agenda. But if we control those negotiations we are much more certain of the outcome. Frankly I trust our negotiators a lot more than I do Compass's, Comair's, Mesaba's etc .... I see the E175 as a distinct from other 76 seaters since it's derivatives are 737 and DC9 replacements (by public admission of members of our BOD, Steenland for one). Not putting flying on the Delta list creates a different kind of hostage - furloughs... and even if not furloughed, all of our small jets compete with their small jets anyway. Our only leverage is our monopolization of our flying. Everything that is outsourced reduces our leverage. Also, I'm concerned about the effect of flow down on Delta pilots. If forced to flow, when does a Delta pilot get "recalled" ? Is it after the hundreds of NWA furlough bypass pilots? What happens to flow down pilots if they are off the property when we enter into the next corporate transaction? Call me "chicken little" as some have, but scope and job protections are like terrain clearance procedures, they have to be designed for worst case scenarios.
Originally Posted by slowplay
(Post 684467)
[/list]You disagree with the conclusion that has been drawn. Fine, that's a part of the process. But it doesn't mean there hasn't been extensive dialogue and communication.
For example, even our Reps were a little surprised at the announcements on Compass a month before the meeting where that decision is supposed to be considered. |
Originally Posted by BusDrvr
(Post 684438)
It looks like that is exactly what happened in three categories. MSP330a, DTW330b, and MEM320b only had VDs. DTW744b and MSP330b only had one MD each with all the rest VDs.
Just surprised(pleasantly) that I did not get MD off the 330. Not even going to look to see why. One AE at a time. Next one Jan 2010? |
Slow,
This has been explained a whole bunch of times. Putting flying that you don't own (scope) on your seniority list makes Delta pilots hostages. Bad idea. At the company management presentation Tuesday Anderson said there weren't going to be any additional aircraft orders, that they were going to spend money getting our fleet to a standardized and better customer experience. The only aircraft they are actively shopping for is MD-90's, or any incremental type they can get for a steal. What do you mean by incremental type? MD90, 717, E190/95? |
Divesture of Compass....?
Happening? What are the effects of it for both DAL and CPZ pilots? Positive/negative effects?
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