|
I also have an issue with allowing more 76 seat jets. With 24 less seats than a 100 seat jet, it would in effect mean less 100 seat jets at mainline.
I know that many ppl think the company will come to the association for more 76 seat relief so that they can restructure DCI. I do not know how allowing more of the 76 seat jets would be good for us, but some think it may be possible. It does go against what those in the know are saying though. The company is on record stating that they are happy with the number of 76 seat jets and do not want more. I hope that is not eyewash. |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 684646)
And that scope resolution was passed by how many pilots? In Atlanta there are probably around 3800 pilots, how many voted for your scope resolution? Does it represent the majority of the pilots or just those that called each other and gave proxies and posted on webboards to show up and vote on their one favorite issue? If you have a resolution that is voted on by 1800 or 1900 pilots then you have a better idea of the will of the council.
Thanks for the softball, right down the middle, by the way. Particularly for our pre merger NWA brothers and sisters. I'd like to introduce you all today to the the extreme arrogance that personifies the pre merger DALPA union leadership. It does not matter that the membership identified an issue that they felt needed to be addressed. It does not matter that the membership then formed and wrote a resolution, as per the Roberts Rules of Order. It does not matter that the resolution was added to the meeting agenda as per the same Roberts Rules of Order. It does not matter that the resolution was voted on by the 44 LEC membership and passed. It is also irregardless if those votes were proxy votes, actual member in attendance votes, or, how those proxies were collected. The average pilot in the membership works over half the month on various days of the week across multiple time zones. A large number of the membership also commutes to their domicile cities. Why wouldn't our association leadership expect anything but a larger percentage of proxy votes on an issue? The limitations of our careers predestine that to be. Finally, how should those who would like to arrange for their voice and their vote to be heard organize a method where that can be accomplished. Particularly if their schedule had them sitting in ACC covered in DEET instead of at the LCC meeting. That's right Einstein, as you said the phone and the internet web boards are great communication tools. And, they are effective. So, tell us all again. How is a resolution that is crafted by the membership and passed by a vote, proxy or actual, not considered the will of the council? It does not matter what percentage of the council membership votes on the resolution. When was the last time any vote of the membership included more than 50% participation outside of contract and bankruptcy related votes? The point is, when that resolution passes it becomes an issue that needs to be addressed and not arrogantly brushed off. Finally, being that resolutions voted on and passed by the LEC members do not represent the will of the council as you say, what does. Wilson polling? It is this arrogance, this offensive display of superiority and self-importance, that is leading to the changes that are starting to occur now in the association. The elected LEC and the MEC are supposed to work for their constituents, not against them. Ignore them and their issues long enough and you will be replaced. Here is a hint. It will probably be a majority of proxy votes that are counted when the end arrives. Change is coming. -Teach |
Originally Posted by Teach
(Post 684683)
Unbelieveable. Exhibit #1 everyone. Arrogance. An offensive display of superiorty or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Particularly for our pre merger NWA brothers and sisters. I'd like to introduce you all today to the the extreme arrogance that personifies the pre merger DALPA union leadership. It does not matter that the membership identified an issue that they felt needed to be addressed. It does not matter that the membership then formed and wrote a resolution, as per the Roberts Rules of Order. It does not matter that the resolution was added to the meeting agenda as per the same Roberts Rules of Order. It does not matter that the resolution was voted on by the 44 LEC membership and passed. It is also irregardless if those votes were proxy votes, actual member in attendance votes, or, how those proxies were collected. The average pilot in the membership works over half the month on various days of the week across multiple time zones. A large number of the membership also commutes to their domicile cities. Why wouldn't our association leadership expect anything but a larger percentage of proxy votes on an issue? The limitations of our careers predestine that to be. Finally, how should those who would like to arrange for their voice and their vote to be heard organize a method where that can be accomplished. Particularly if their schedule had them sitting in ACC covered in DEET instead of at the LCC meeting. That's right Einstein, as you said the phone and the internet web boards are great communication tools. And, they are effective. So, tell us all again. How is a resolution that is crafted by the membership and passed by a vote, proxy or actual, not considered the will of the council? It does not matter what percentage of the council membership votes on the resolution. When was the last time any vote of the membership included more than 50% participation outside of contract and bankruptcy related votes? The point is, when that resolution passes it becomes an issue that needs to be addressed and not arrogantly brushed off. Finally, being that resolutions voted on and passed by the LEC members do not represent the will of the council as you say, what does. Wilson polling? It is this arrogance, this offensive display of superiority and self-importance, that is leading to the changes that are starting to occur now in the association. The elected LEC and the MEC are supposed to work for their constituents, not against them. Ignore them and their issues long enough and you will be replaced. Here is a hint. It will probably be a majority of proxy votes that are counted when the end arrives. Change is coming. -Teach |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 684678)
Yep you are correct. I could not get to it quick enough. The little monster hit submit.
They know it will go to mainline, at least that is what they are telling me. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 684687)
Well stated.
|
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 684646)
And that scope resolution was passed by how many pilots? In Atlanta there are probably around 3800 pilots, how many voted for your scope resolution? Does it represent the majority of the pilots or just those that called each other and gave proxies and posted on webboards to show up and vote on their one favorite issue? If you have a resolution that is voted on by 1800 or 1900 pilots then you have a better idea of the will of the council.
Thanks for the softball, right down the middle, by the way. Did you really just take a shot at the people that actually go to the LEC meetings? What an arrogant tool... Does wearing that ALPA shirt make your head get that much bigger? Perhaps a mustache would be in order to complete the package. Exactly why we need some big changes at council 44 this election cycle. This attitude is pervasive throughout the current leadership. |
Disregard.................
|
As I have stated, pilots know the process to get their agenda heard within ALPA. When members get mad enough they show up. Some write resolutions, do the education of the group that is required, get the resolution on the agenda, obtain proxies and get the resolution passed. That is called being involved.
There is a silent majority that need to be queried to see their point of view, but the fact is that, if a resolution is passed, it does not need to be tabled. I have talked to only one pilot that sees money first and scope second. He was a rather selfish, and even recognized the short sightedness of pay for scope. After the last decade and a half of decline, people want the foundation shored up, or as slow put is the pilings pushed deeper in to the ground. Long term thinking is required. We as a group need to determine our long term strategic course, create leverage, and further an agenda that all pilots want. I am for finding ways to change policy and by-laws to allow further visibility and access for this group. We need to find a way to get more involved. Many are not going to forgo two off days to commute to ATL for a meeting. We should find a way to bring the meeting to them. I understand their may be a cost to this, but in this day and age, it is needed. Just my .02 |
Originally Posted by Teach
(Post 684377)
ALPA rep drops a four day trip for union work. He is paid out of the collective dues money for this trip. On what would have been day two of the four day, this rep picks up a greenslip. ***?
I did not see anything on DBMS that allowed me or any of the other line pilots to do this. So the assertation that we are all under the same contract is right, but not the same rules. I'd go as far as saying that those rules are being fraudulently manipulated. -Teach |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 684462)
Bucking Bar, Every pilot I know after listening to the actual facts on the RJ grievance in the end feels it was handled well. I have listened to several hard core guys say how scope was sold out. Then the reasons behind the agreement were explained and they all said. Well I guess I would have done the same thing. You are aware that had we won the grievance in a slam dunk that at the time it was projected the company would have access to the additional airframes in less then a year anyway. Your aware that had we won it was still unlikely the arbitrator would have ordered the removal of the seats. Are you aware that with the agreement reached we get to use our interpretation of the disputed clause in all future RJ resets which is big long term. We also got a small amount of increase furlough protection. Given that we had almost no upside in winning the grievance and a huge downside in losing you believe DALPA miss handled it?
Yea if we would have lost the RJ argument and our interpretation it would have been a short term loss but the small win would have been ever more sweet. Never think you're going to lose because "you think, you're dead." Common Lee, it's time to take back what is ours and not negotiate like you're buying a new Volkswagen. Am I ready to walk out if need be? HELL YEA... The preceding has been a paid political announcement. BD |
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