Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-25-2009, 01:25 PM
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Originally Posted by johnso29
Wow. It's quiet today.
Forgot to bid,
Guess your avatar's FO didn't like his CA?
Forgot to bid,
Guess your avatar's FO didn't like his CA?
Off to go do more of this and that
09-25-2009, 02:41 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Urban chicken rancher.
Posts: 6,070
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Well, some of us have been a little busy with this and that
Off to go do more of this and that
Off to go do more of this and that
09-25-2009, 03:43 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
Everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots. In case you didn't notice, the pilots in the union work under the same contract as you, so there is pretty much a built in motivation to get a better contract. With the exception of some guys who seem to hang in their forever, most pilots work in the union for a while and then head back to the line. By the way, line flying is a much better job.
AlphaSlow, we all might be working under the same collective bargaining agreement, but definitely not the same rules. Explain this. ALPA rep drops a four day trip for union work. He is paid out of the collective dues money for this trip. On what would have been day two of the four day, this rep picks up a greenslip. ***?
I did not see anything on DBMS that allowed me or any of the other line pilots to do this. So the assertation that we are all under the same contract is right, but not the same rules. I'd go as far as saying that those rules are being fraudulently manipulated.
-Teach
09-25-2009, 04:02 PM
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
Well, some of us have been a little busy with this and that
Off to go do more of this and that
Off to go do more of this and that
09-25-2009, 04:15 PM
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
After doing union work, I have seen many "saviors" appear, those that are going to "be tough", "say no", etc. etc. Usually they end up going two ways. Most end up discovering that it is easier to pound your chest on the webboards when you have no responsibility for your decisions than it is to actually have the careers of thousands of pilots resting on your decisions. When they discover the true responsibility they now have for their actions, they learn that it is not easy, that compromises have to happen, that wanting something and being able to get something are two different things. Reality bites.
Some never get it. They usually spin off on their own, voting no to everything and offering nothing of substance to the equation. Some of those then diminish the organization by writing self righteous pap and sending it out to their pilots. These people usually flash in and out of the organization and are quickly forgotten by everyone, including their webboard cheerleaders. They leave behind no actual work or any contributions to the organization. Many times they show up back on the webboards trying to revive those good old days when they were in the spotlight.
Everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots.
Some never get it. They usually spin off on their own, voting no to everything and offering nothing of substance to the equation. Some of those then diminish the organization by writing self righteous pap and sending it out to their pilots. These people usually flash in and out of the organization and are quickly forgotten by everyone, including their webboard cheerleaders. They leave behind no actual work or any contributions to the organization. Many times they show up back on the webboards trying to revive those good old days when they were in the spotlight.
Everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots.
First, it appears your really don't get it. You say that "everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots." Really? Was there not an LEC resolution asking for a scope report card passed by the pilots of the union?
What did the leadership do with that resolution? It was a simple easy request that sprang from the blow back that the MEC and Moak experienced after mishandling the rj grievance. How do you just wake up one day and figure out that there are 22 or so too many rj's in the connection fleet? And the communication on this issue. Unbelieveable. I'd give it an F. We would not even be discussing report cards if the MEC had not missed this fact 22 times!
Finally, you can put down all the newly nominated reps all you want as "web board chest pounders." Fact is, they have been nominated as a direct result of the rj/scope blowback created by the MEC. Add to this the ineffective communication that is more often than not a condenscending one way conversation and voila, you have a slate of people that want to vote for change.
Now, you have many people in the union who want to see this change and they are ready to vote to make this change happen. This is going to be interesting. Got to go. Wife and I have a date night with one of our daughters. Priorities.
-Teach
09-25-2009, 04:42 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,096
I was curious if you older and more wiser guys had any thoughts on RA's comment today regarding the AFA, IAM and other unions in the AFL-CIO filing a request with the National Mediation Board in order to change the traditional majority voting rule?
09-25-2009, 04:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Originally Posted by Teach
ALPA rep drops a four day trip for union work. He is paid out of the collective dues money for this trip. On what would have been day two of the four day, this rep picks up a greenslip. ***?
I did not see anything on DBMS that allowed me or any of the other line pilots to do this. So the assertation that we are all under the same contract is right, but not the same rules. I'd go as far as saying that those rules are being fraudulently manipulated.
-Teach
I did not see anything on DBMS that allowed me or any of the other line pilots to do this. So the assertation that we are all under the same contract is right, but not the same rules. I'd go as far as saying that those rules are being fraudulently manipulated.
-Teach
09-25-2009, 04:52 PM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I wont admit to being older and I'm sure I'm not wiser, but here's my take in a nutshell.
RA put himself in fatherly mode complete with corduroy vest and a pipe filled with borkum rif. He was targeting the fence sitters and gently reminding them what a comfortable womb the non-unionized delta was. That is all I saw.
RA put himself in fatherly mode complete with corduroy vest and a pipe filled with borkum rif. He was targeting the fence sitters and gently reminding them what a comfortable womb the non-unionized delta was. That is all I saw.
09-25-2009, 04:52 PM
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by Teach
AlphaSlow, this is just way too easy. A big fat slow pitch down the middle. I was going to preface this with sorry, but I just got to do this... but I won't.
First, it appears your really don't get it. You say that "everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots." Really? Was there not an LEC resolution asking for a scope report card passed by the pilots of the union?
What did the leadership do with that resolution? It was a simple easy request that sprang from the blow back that the MEC and Moak experienced after mishandling the rj grievance. How do you just wake up one day and figure out that there are 22 or so too many rj's in the connection fleet? And the communication on this issue. Unbelieveable. I'd give it an F. We would not even be discussing report cards if the MEC had not missed this fact 22 times!
Finally, you can put down all the newly nominated reps all you want as "web board chest pounders." Fact is, they have been nominated as a direct result of the rj/scope blowback created by the MEC. Add to this the ineffective communication that is more often than not a condenscending one way conversation and voila, you have a slate of people that want to vote for change.
Now, you have many people in the union who want to see this change and they are ready to vote to make this change happen. This is going to be interesting. Got to go. Wife and I have a date night with one of our daughters. Priorities.
-Teach
First, it appears your really don't get it. You say that "everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots." Really? Was there not an LEC resolution asking for a scope report card passed by the pilots of the union?
What did the leadership do with that resolution? It was a simple easy request that sprang from the blow back that the MEC and Moak experienced after mishandling the rj grievance. How do you just wake up one day and figure out that there are 22 or so too many rj's in the connection fleet? And the communication on this issue. Unbelieveable. I'd give it an F. We would not even be discussing report cards if the MEC had not missed this fact 22 times!
Finally, you can put down all the newly nominated reps all you want as "web board chest pounders." Fact is, they have been nominated as a direct result of the rj/scope blowback created by the MEC. Add to this the ineffective communication that is more often than not a condenscending one way conversation and voila, you have a slate of people that want to vote for change.
Now, you have many people in the union who want to see this change and they are ready to vote to make this change happen. This is going to be interesting. Got to go. Wife and I have a date night with one of our daughters. Priorities.
-Teach
Spot on! Very well said.
09-25-2009, 05:37 PM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,989
Originally Posted by Teach
AlphaSlow, this is just way too easy. A big fat slow pitch down the middle. I was going to preface this with sorry, but I just got to do this... but I won't.
First, it appears your really don't get it. You say that "everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots." Really? Was there not an LEC resolution asking for a scope report card passed by the pilots of the union?
What did the leadership do with that resolution? It was a simple easy request that sprang from the blow back that the MEC and Moak experienced after mishandling the rj grievance. How do you just wake up one day and figure out that there are 22 or so too many rj's in the connection fleet? And the communication on this issue. Unbelieveable. I'd give it an F. We would not even be discussing report cards if the MEC had not missed this fact 22 times!
Finally, you can put down all the newly nominated reps all you want as "web board chest pounders." Fact is, they have been nominated as a direct result of the rj/scope blowback created by the MEC. Add to this the ineffective communication that is more often than not a condenscending one way conversation and voila, you have a slate of people that want to vote for change.
Now, you have many people in the union who want to see this change and they are ready to vote to make this change happen.
-Teach
First, it appears your really don't get it. You say that "everyone understands that the union revolves around the pilots." Really? Was there not an LEC resolution asking for a scope report card passed by the pilots of the union?
What did the leadership do with that resolution? It was a simple easy request that sprang from the blow back that the MEC and Moak experienced after mishandling the rj grievance. How do you just wake up one day and figure out that there are 22 or so too many rj's in the connection fleet? And the communication on this issue. Unbelieveable. I'd give it an F. We would not even be discussing report cards if the MEC had not missed this fact 22 times!
Finally, you can put down all the newly nominated reps all you want as "web board chest pounders." Fact is, they have been nominated as a direct result of the rj/scope blowback created by the MEC. Add to this the ineffective communication that is more often than not a condenscending one way conversation and voila, you have a slate of people that want to vote for change.
Now, you have many people in the union who want to see this change and they are ready to vote to make this change happen.
-Teach
It is an MEC issue if they go along (and so far they have). It seems like we are quick to figure out the benefits of more outsourcing, but slow (to the point of outright refusal) to evaluate what good could come from Delta pilots performing our flying.
Sorry to keep coming back to this, but it really is an issue our MEC refuses to deal with constructively. If we make the mistake of divesting Compass in October, there will be blow back. I earnestly hope that does not happen.
Should we write more? Is it appropriate to write Candidate's positions in this forum?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-25-2009 at 05:55 PM.
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