dalad

The 767 is wide body. Just not super premium

shiznit

Hmmm, you were not a Delta pilot then, so your version(revision) of history is a little off. DAL 757 pay was brought up to 767 pay, not the other way around.

You do make a good point though (by accident I'm sure!): Those "fools" at ALPA negotiated a pay rate for the likely 767 replacement (787) that is higher than 767-400/330 pay rates.

Karnak

Has anything the MEC put out lowered your expectations?

You give off the vibe that you believe you're smarter than the rest of us. That you disagree with the majority of the pilot group on a few issues doesn't mean that you're right.

Paying down the debt is important. Making the stock "investment grade" is important. Paying the pension debt down ahead of schedule is important. Buying new aircraft to replace aging aircraft is important. Buying aircraft to grow is important.

The message I get from the MEC is that it's better to negotiate with a successful enterprise, than a money losing one. A brief glance at contract history might help you see that.

Good luck!

Justdoinmyjob

Why wouldn't someone count a 767 as a widebody? Does it not have twin isles? Is it not over 300,000 lbs? Pay rate has no bearing on the definition of an airplane. If a company only paid $100 per hour to fly a 747, is it still a widebody? Don't buy into the "767 pays what a 757 pays" argument. That was a construct of the SLI discussion and used to justify one sides position.

Alan Shore

I agree fully, although as Shiznit previously posted, the 757, 767-200, and 767-300 were all brought up to 767-300ER pay rates in C2K -- long before the merger with NWA.

Pineapple Guy

Funny how gzsg never mentions that in his rant. I wish Delta had done that when I had a pension...

tsquare

Oh really? Hmmmmmm Well, OK, define "concerned" and we might take this a little farther. Other than that, you pretty much have your foot in your mouth up to your kneecap.

And what do you believe the purpose of a stock buyback might be? Pump up the stock price? Can't wait to hear your answer on that.

Interesting choice of words. I listen to what Mr Anderson (and the other EVPs) says in the LCP meetings. (Actually I also listen to investor day podcasts and quarterly report briefings.. that are publicly available) I also compare what he says this time, to the one before that, and the one before that, and the one before that... and you know what? It is really remarkable just how truthful he has been historically with the LCP group. In my most recent notes, there are already 2 things that have come to fruition SINCE they were spoken of in March. You might call that being a lemming, I prefer to call it research.


I agree that 2015 will be historical. And it should be. Of course a few PDs that want to strike the company just to make their point would change all that, but that is a minor detail... Interesting that many of the negadeltas here keep saying that the MEC has no "goals" or committing to anything. Sounds as if you just proved otherwise. The rest of your statement is itself nonsense. I am not trying to lower expectations, quite the contrary. Take the blinders off and look around you. It's gonna get better and better around here.

acl65pilot

One thing that I think all of us need to be cognizant of too is: DAL has never hired more than about six years in a row since deregulation. Late 1985-1991, Late 1996-early 2001, 2007-2008, 2010. We are looking at 10-15 years of continued hiring hiring, and this time may be different based on where that six year point from today lies in relation to the retirements, but the historical reality is 2020 the doors will close, or the hiring will slow down significantly. Where will you be on the seniority list at that time? What will six years of possible reduced or no hiring due to your career expectations?

Each of these hiring waves was stopped by world events. 1991/1992 was the First Gulf War, 2001 was 9/11. 2008 was the start of the great recession and 2010 was just need based hiring due to too many on long term leaves.

The point is, it looks good for a decade plus from the perspective of today, but world events can change that vantage point in a instant. We are going to be retiring 700+ about the time the six year window arrives so we may break the historical trend due to our age inertia, but that does not mean that the world economy will be doing well at that time. It also does not mean that we will be replacing pilots on a 1:1 basis. Its important to strategically plan, strategically implement, and influence a timeline of your choosing.

Scoop

ACL,

Considering we have many FO's that have already been here 15 years with "reduced or no hiring," plus 5 bonus years as FO, not mention 1000+ furloughs, what you mention above seems barely seems to be a "speed-bump" in ones career.

Scoop

acl65pilot

Maybe maybe not. Point is that we need to look at past hiring trends and world events to craft strategy going forward. I would say that the lack of hiring for six years after 1991 and 2001 were not speed bumps, but significant detours.