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Old 04-08-2014, 08:22 AM
  #153441  
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Speaking of PBS, it just 5h1t the bed. (1220 EDT) Halfway through my bid, and poof. I hope it saved my work.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:23 AM
  #153442  
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Originally Posted by shiznit
Hmmm, you were not a Delta pilot then, so your version(revision) of history is a little off. DAL 757 pay was brought up to 767 pay, not the other way around.

You do make a good point though (by accident I'm sure!): Those "fools" at ALPA negotiated a pay rate for the likely 767 replacement (787) that is higher than 767-400/330 pay rates.
2014 Pay Rates

767 $219.62
737 $211.70

$7 and change. If you think that is widebody pay and not 757 more power to you.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:50 AM
  #153443  
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I have a friend who has conditional employment with Delta, but he's going to a Delta Pilot Review Board because of the Psych Eval. He's military, and has told me that several military guys from his interview group are going to this review board because of the Psych Eval. I've read past post regarding this. I know Delta loves military pilots who are becoming fewer in number these days. What is the likelihood that he'll fly for us? Seems more of a formality to me. He said that his interview went very well.
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Old 04-08-2014, 08:53 AM
  #153444  
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Originally Posted by gzsg
2014 Pay Rates

767 $219.62
737 $211.70

$7 and change. If you think that is widebody pay and not 757 more power to you.

gzsg,

You are correct that the pay difference is minimal now, but the history of it is pretty complicated and mostly before my time. I believe that serious mid-contract gains were made as certain aircraft were added to the DAL fleet, specifically the 737NG and the 777.

So if the 737's made a huge gain on WB pay in the past and that gain is still evident today, is that necessarily a bad thing?

Scoop
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:03 AM
  #153445  
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Originally Posted by Scoop
gzsg,

You are correct that the pay difference is minimal now, but the history of it is pretty complicated and mostly before my time. I believe that serious mid-contract gains were made as certain aircraft were added to the DAL fleet, specifically the 737NG and the 777.

So if the 737's made a huge gain on WB pay in the past and that gain is still evident today, is that necessarily a bad thing?

Scoop

The difference between ER and 737 pay is of less concern to me than the difference between the ER and the A330/765. Without taking the time to run the math again, I'm pretty sure it's the largest percentage difference in the fleet.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:07 AM
  #153446  
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Originally Posted by Scoop
ACl,

I think you totally misinterpreted my post. That is exactly what I was saying - A future six year stop in hiring will inflict relatively mimimal career "pain" compared to what the '91, and 2000-2001' hires have already been through.

Scoop
I think we are talking past each other. I was referring to those on property and those already effected by those two events, not those yet on property.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:17 AM
  #153447  
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Originally Posted by DALMD88FO
Actually we bought part of Pan Am in 91 which brought pilots along with it in 91 and in 2001 we stopped hiring in July right after signing C2K which believe it or not gave some work rules to the company which allowed them to do more with less.

I do agree with what you are saying about hiring trends, however the management team in place at the time has a lot to do with the welfare of the company. The first RA followed by Leo and his cronies did not help our situation with some very poor business decision that the current RA is still having to fix (RJ's for one)
Yes C2K required 300 less pilots with the work rule changes. I remember Dotty explaining that to me quite well. Prior to 9-11 the gap in hiring was to be short lived, after it wasn't. The business was quite leveraged going in to 2001 after the actions taken prior to C2K's signing.

In 1991, yes PanAm was bought and yes that was also the initial pause in hiring, but another "world" event deepened the effects of the stop in hiring.

The take away is that both large hiring cycles lasted about six years and stopped for about six years each. Just food for thought at we go in to an expected cycle that is to double both of these. Call it a combination of corporate action and world events, but both large hiring cycles and the time frame in between them was about six years. For all intents and purposes, the 2007-2008 waive about 770 pilots had a burp in 2010 that broke the trend line, but its been about six years since the last major hiring cycle as well. Again corporate action and world events collided. the 2010 deviation was explained in the base visits. The difference last time is no one was furloughed.


Its merely historical events and cycles that should be looked at as we move in to a second up contract (breaking historical trends btw) and the time frame we have until things may break. Its no more than using historical waves as one data point. It helps build perspective for all of us.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:21 AM
  #153448  
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Originally Posted by gzsg
2014 Pay Rates

767 $219.62
737 $211.70

$7 and change. If you think that is widebody pay and not 757 more power to you.
Surely you jest.....

2008:
NWA . . 757 - $144.41

NWA . . 330 - $161.52 (+$17.11)
DAL . . .757 - $159.98 (+$15.57)

Using the rate YOU had at NWA for the 757, it definitely wasn't a WB payrate; I completely agree!

The DAL contract certainly seemed to have the 757 pay in line with your historical definition of WB pay differential.
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Old 04-08-2014, 09:28 AM
  #153449  
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
I think we are talking past each other. I was referring to those on property and those already effected by those two events, not those yet on property.

No worries. I agree with your main point on the need to think strategically and also the fact that the music can stop at any moment.

Scoop
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Old 04-08-2014, 10:06 AM
  #153450  
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Originally Posted by nwaf16dude
The difference between ER and 737 pay is of less concern to me than the difference between the ER and the A330/765. Without taking the time to run the math again, I'm pretty sure it's the largest percentage difference in the fleet.
The same thing applies to the 767-400 which generated the A330 rate in the merger. We were able to negotiate a rate higher then the norm based on the increased efficiency of the newer airframes. The 767-400, 777 and 737NG all got the higher rates.
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