Speaking of drama, you ridicule what is very capable of actually happening (CDOs) and liken it with the probability of working 1 day/month with a $1m signing bonus.?????

If you really think both of these two scenarios are equally likely then you are in worse shape than I thought. Not that I gave you much credit to start with.

Unless there is a 1:1 rig attached to the CDOs, that will be a big concession and QOL reduction for many pilots.

Sorry about your June sched. :( You went back to the 88, didn't you?

The issue of CDO's isn't as cut and dry. Fact is many pilots like them. At some places they go very senior. Of course the devil is in the details, as not all CDO's are created equal. They also get rid of most of the 30 hour overnights which, as a rule, we're not too collectively crazy about.

I wouldn't be against them if there were layered QOL and circadian protections in the work rules. Like hotels in domicile for CDO lines, standards for max duty and min on the ground times, and stand alone CDO's for reserves resulting in no duty until sometime AM the following day after return. And also how they pay would be crucial.

There are ways we could do CDO's that would be a net gain for the pilot group. There are ways we could do CDO's that would drop the ball big time.

Its all in the details. Either way, I'd like to see any attempt at this become a separate issue from the 117 negotiations entirely, as that needs to be resolved on its own merits. And CDO's would also need to go to MEMRAT IMO.

He will do and say anything to keep his lanyard.

My point exactly. I always said you can outsource the whole airline and pay every pilot 10 million dollars as a signing bonus, and I will be a yes voter. 1:1 rig and you're onboard with CDOs, got it. Package it appropriately and correctly, and it can actually be a good thing.

Bid back to 88 for seniority, and then immediately stripped myself of it--for june anyway (and july 4th thanks to the unintended consequences of a TA that shall remain nameless but one which I voted against) Still not exactly sure how I screwed myself, for I must have done it, but don't remember doing so--reminds me of college. I'll embrace the suck :roll eyes:

Starting not to like this people know me but I don't know them.:eek:

Having flown CDOs at a previous carrier, they suck. No two ways about it.

What would hotels in domicile do for CDO? What about the guy who lives in base, who lives an hour away. Either he goes and "tries" to sleep in the hotel in base, which we all know is somewhat futile, then doesn't see his family at all for those he's doing the CDO. Or he drives an hour home, tries to integrate into the family life half-tired only to do it again. I can tell you that with young kids, getting a nap during the day is hard to do at best and sometimes impossible. Yet the junior folks on the narrowbodies (because the widebodies aren't doing CDOs) are the ones with young kids and the like. Then if we're fatigued, too bad, no pay for you.

Anyway - I just hope we don't. In fact, merely the idea of the CDO tells me to write a nicely worded letter to my reps saying how CDOs are a bad idea, and I hope if they show up in the 117 TA that I think it's a sell-out for the junior people (who will be doing them).

I doubt I would be on board with it even with a 1:1 rig... I despise CDO's and that's about the only way to mitigate me getting stuck with a schedule full of them. That was the point and not the trigger for me to vote for them. :)

Whatever happens in PBS is the user's fault, which is why it is both fantastic and a plague at the same time! (I never want to go back to line bidding regardless of what idiocy I do to myself)

That's what happens when you run for office! I thought I heard you mention something about the 88 when you were talking with a guy a few feet away from me in ops not all that long ago. I'll out myself next time I see you.

http://www.wrongtees.com/images/dyna...sign_black.png

The scenarios you bring up exist for rotations we currently do anyway. We run a 24 hour airline and we can't have or assume perfect sleep schedules with reasonable wake up times. What we can do is build in as many protections as we can. Hotels in domicile for CDO lines would be a huge benefit as it would provide local pilots with a massive safety related option. Not going home between them would make it like any other 3-4 day trip. If you can't go home and safely get rest, go to the hotel. For commuters it would be a similar win over any kind of pad arrengament (or crew room? :( )

Maybe you didn't like CDO's. Many pilots do though, especially if the work rules defining them are good. We do 30 hour overnights now and they suck. No two ways about it.

For 117, they are called Split Duty Trips. You have to make sure they are no more than 1 hour in flight time each leg, 1 leg out, at least 6 hours rest, 1 leg home, otherwise they are awful. No more than three in a row, and they can NOT be put on a regular line, or a day reserve can be switched to them.

I agree with you philosophically. Where the rub lies is obvious. Yes, it does appear that the company is not following the rules. Yes, we all know what the risk is in staying the course before this has been hashed out at the MEC/company level. (QED)Yes, it sucks, but the inconvenient fact is that we work for DAL, and DAL always has the luxury of the "fly now and grieve it" perspective. I don't like it either, but it is a fact of life. And nowhere did I say that the guys that take that risk did anything wrong. I am not opposed to some kind of fund from the MCF that will be paid back at a later date when the grievance is settled one way or the other.