Which is horse crap! Guess we will never fix the 10:45 GUA's.....correction 10:34

 

Clamp,

I see the value of it. My concern is that we raise the minimum ADG to 5:15 and allow CDOs at the same time. The CDOs greatly reduce the 13:30-3 days etc.

Basically we are happy we are getting more credit but at the same time the company reduces credit trips - staying one step ahead of us, as always.

Anyhow, I am willing to keep an open mind and wait for details to be released.

Scoop

 

All I read is b!tching and moaning from the usual Debbie Downers before ANYONE here has seen the actual language and all the other aspects...

take a deep breath, wind your watch, and wait to see what the REAL LOA TA looks like. It might be a concessionary, it might be marginal, it might be a slam dunk win for the pilots. NONE OF YOU KNOW!

I'm all for fun speculation, but c'mon people, let's give a little bit of credence to the NC and the MEC for taking their time and not rushing to anything back in November..... This took almost 7 month's to hash out... LONGER THAN C2012 NEGOTIATIONS!!!!

I cannot be sure until I've seen it myself, but the evidence points to the fact that the MEC got the message that quality should not be sacrificed for expediency.

 

Good point. I think the main difference is that a redeye is preceded by a layover at a hotel whereas a CDO is preceded by a day at home. Most guys that do redeyes get some sleep during the day at the hotel in preparation for doing the redeye. Can you say the same thing for most guys spending the day at home before a CDO?

 

We don't know that one way or the other yet...

 

88,

90% of our redeyes (737 LAX) are the first leg of our trip, and we have a lot of them.

Scoop

 

Yep........

 

We also only have 12 hour layovers preceding redeyes. I can certify I'm getting less rest on those than I get on a CDO. It all hinges on the restrictions tagged with them. I'm not a fan of CDOs, but a highly restricted and premium pay exception I can support if we are creating pilot jobs and increasing our QOL overall.

Like Shiz said... We need to slow our roll and guard our assumptions until we can fill in the blanks with more details. That can be difficult and takes discipline.

 

OK, so how is it different from most ocean crossings that we do everyday at Delta....you commute in from home for a late report....fly a little bit....rest a couple hours....and then fly again as the sun is coming up.

As somebody who doesn't sleep well on planes anyway, I guarantee that I will be better rested with >6 hours at a hotel where I can stretch out in my undies, control my own A/C and take a nice shower/shave when I get up compared to a couple hours of fitful tossing and turning in a crew rest facility. At least the CDO stays in the same time zone.

I personally can sleep late at my house (I go to bed late as well) I know others who can sleep on planes like nobody's business. Different strokes for different folks...Bid what you want and want what you bid.

 

Thanks. I didn't know that. I've flown the 88 (with a couple of years on the DC-9) my whole career at Delta. The only redeyes I was familiar with were the few we've had on the 88 and all the midnight rockets coming back to ATL from the west.

Still doesn't change my opinion of ADDING the capability for the company to schedule CDO's. In my opinion, redeyes are already a compromise on safety. (I KNOW they are for me because I've never been able to take naps.) But the reality is that the market demands that we have redeye flights. Somebody has to fly them. CDO's are just late night/early morning flights with crews scheduled in a creative way to get around the FAR rest requirements. It's a loophole in the FAR's (exploited by the airlines) that I don't think was ever intended. I see no reason to make this compromise in safety... especially when the company has other ways they can cover those flights WITHOUT making any compromise in safety.