Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

They were making the assumption that guys were going to sleep during the day in preparation for this. This wreaks of a committee comprised of people who don't really understand what happens with these CDO's in the real world. Are you seriously telling me that you think it's safe for someone to conduct a flight after only getting 3 or 4 hours of sleep in a 24 hour period? Do you actually fly the line?

Originally Posted by RockyBoy

So would a split duty period standup pay a 7:30 guarantee for the whole thing or 7:30 per split duty period for 15:00 total? I think the regional I used to work for paid close to 10:00 guarantee for a standup.

Originally Posted by Ragtop Day

Trying to figure this one out myself. With the new ADG of 5:15 a split duty would have to pay at least 10:30. If the whole thing paid 15:00, why not just say that?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

...there is a 6ish hour sit in the middle of it where you go to the hotel.

Originally Posted by Alan Shore

Where do you see the 6-hour break written?

Originally Posted by SFWB

Need details. 13 hours? Not impressed. No work on first day of reserve before 10. It's noon right now. Illegals. No thanks. 3 pilots where we are using two crews. Doesn't that equal fewer pilots. No thanks.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Split duty is a misleading term. It's a single duty period that would sign in around 9pm and you'd get done around 7am.

The min pay for that single duty period (it is called split duty since there is a 6ish hour sit in the middle of it where you go to the hotel) is 7:30.

Originally Posted by Ragtop Day

Yes, but since this covers two calendar days, wouldn't the new 5:15 ADG kick in giving 10:30 for the trip? Or am I misunderstanding how ADG is applied?

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

Actually I think it's pretty much the same as what we have now. If you start short call at 10am then immediately get assigned something, you have the 2 hours or so to get to the airport making it some time around a 12 noon show time. Which is what it has been in the past.

Denny

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

That's their job. That's what they signed up for. You fly for UPS/FedEx and you're going to be doing a lot of back side of the clock flying, at least while you're junior. Some people can do that and make it work. Others can't. I never applied to those companies for that exact reason. I know it wouldn't work for me. That's why I stayed on the 88 as an F/O when I could have held the 757/767 or 738. I'd rather have a root canal than do a redeye or CDO. But that's just me. I fully realize that some folks can handle this... IF they get the necessary sleep during the day.

Here's the problem with CDO's. (And, yes, I DO think they should be prohibited by FAR.) The whole reason why guys bid those is so they can be home all day, every day... get things done, spend time with the family, make more money, etc. The reality of it is the only sleep they are going to get is whatever sleep they get at the hotel in between flights. The FAA has identified 8 hours as being the amount of sleep needed for most people to be well rested. That's consistent with the widely accepted sleep science and it's the whole reason they put it in the FAR as part of the 10 hour minimum layover. CDO's will NOT provide anywhere near that amount of sleep for anyone. Therefore, I believe... no matter how much you try to rationalize it because you want to fly less and be home more, make more money, whatever... the reality is that you WILL be fatigued for that morning flight home after getting just a few short hours of sleep. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. I wouldn't put my family on a flight with pilots that are flying the morning flight on the tail end of a CDO. When I was commuting, I've passed on RJ flights and taken a later flight for that exact reason.