Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-18-2014, 04:41 PM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,388
I already voted. Didn't you?
My rep likely favors MEMRAT as a general philosophy; he has openly mentioned in LEC meetings. I hope they look at whether the deal is good first, and once that conversation and debate has concluded make their determination if it is beneficial for the pilot group.
if that answer is "Yes", then I hope they do the same due diligence with a completely open mind on the advantages/ disadvantages of MEMRAT, and then vote accordingly.
They are separate votes with separate deliberations.
MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME.
The bigger question in my mind as we head into this next section six is whether the minority (if there is one, I'd love a unanimous vote as a show of unity from the leadership) will throw the majority under the bus or if they will support the majority as another way of displaying unity.
I'm tired of 10-9 votes and "it's not my fault" council comms that often come afterward.
My rep likely favors MEMRAT as a general philosophy; he has openly mentioned in LEC meetings. I hope they look at whether the deal is good first, and once that conversation and debate has concluded make their determination if it is beneficial for the pilot group.
if that answer is "Yes", then I hope they do the same due diligence with a completely open mind on the advantages/ disadvantages of MEMRAT, and then vote accordingly.
They are separate votes with separate deliberations.
MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME.
The bigger question in my mind as we head into this next section six is whether the minority (if there is one, I'd love a unanimous vote as a show of unity from the leadership) will throw the majority under the bus or if they will support the majority as another way of displaying unity.
I'm tired of 10-9 votes and "it's not my fault" council comms that often come afterward.
05-18-2014, 04:46 PM
veut gagner à la loterie
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Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
FTB, there have been several posts regarding "what happens to the break if there is MX, weather delay, IROPs, etc."
The FAR 117 section is very clear that in order for the airline to conduct Split Duty Ops, they must meet all 6 requirements of FAR 117.15 and one of those [117.15(d)] specifically states:
The FAR 117 section is very clear that in order for the airline to conduct Split Duty Ops, they must meet all 6 requirements of FAR 117.15 and one of those [117.15(d)] specifically states:
In other words, if your rotation was built to have a 6 hour break, and WX causes you to arrive 2 hours late, then they are going to have to slide the departure time of the morning flight by two hours or find someone else to fly it.
Furthermore, 117.15(b) requires that the break doesn't officially start until you actually reach the "suitable accomodations" so if you are having trouble getting the hotel van at 0100 in the AM, your break doesn't start until you arrive at the hotel. Lastly, one of the requirements of Split Duty Ops is that the rest Period be provided in 'Suitable Accomodations', so even if you wanted to just stay on the airplane overnight, you'd be busting the FARs.
It should be noted that the only thing we have so far from the MEC in writng regarding Split Duty period ops is this:
FAR 117.15 only requires a break of at least 3 hours, so any break at Delta would have to be at least 3 hours, though the rumor floating around is a contractual minimum of 6
and i know this sounds crazy but 6 hours at the hotel and everything that comes with it sounds fatiguing.
05-18-2014, 04:47 PM
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05-18-2014, 04:51 PM
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Posts: 12,109
I dunno. I could see bidding these... if... that 6 hours is guaranteed, and if.. legal to start, legal to finish is not a player. Tacking on a CDO after a 3 or 4 day trip for an additional 7.30 might be doable. For me... personally... less than 6 hours sleep on the backside/early part of the clock is abhorrent. I will wait to see language and guarantees. If that rest can be reduced to 3 hours, it's a no brainer for me.
05-18-2014, 04:52 PM
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Position: Boeing Hearing and Ergonomics Lab Rat, Night Shift
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...MY MEC SPEAKS FOR ME.
The bigger question in my mind as we head into this next section six is whether the minority (if there is one, I'd love a unanimous vote as a show of unity from the leadership) will throw the majority under the bus or if they will support the majority as another way of displaying unity.
I'm tired of 10-9 votes and "it's not my fault" council comms that often come afterward.
The bigger question in my mind as we head into this next section six is whether the minority (if there is one, I'd love a unanimous vote as a show of unity from the leadership) will throw the majority under the bus or if they will support the majority as another way of displaying unity.
I'm tired of 10-9 votes and "it's not my fault" council comms that often come afterward.
1) Why do we keep getting "we need unity" letters from a body that can't achieve the same?
2) When it comes to unity, it starts at the top, plain and simple.
"The captain sets the tone"
I have high hopes for Donatelli and his leadership, he is probably more politically savvy than our past few chairmen and will figure out how to pitch a big tent that shades all and brings everybody into the fold. I bet every Delta pilot wants what's best for Delta pilots. It's these differences then that are the very source of unity --if we choose to work together, or the source of disunity --if we choose to go down a my-way or the highway type approach.
To some extent this is the first test of the new leadership.
We shall see.
Cheers
George
05-18-2014, 04:56 PM
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Posts: 12,537
It should absolutely go to MEMRAT. This is a huge comprehensive TA with its little fingers in a million pies over what was essentially mostly over just two issues for reserves: day one report time and length of long call/leash length.
From the email we got, we dropped the ball BIG TIME with regards to those two things.
As it stands now (pre-TA) even the company's union busting unilateral fantasy contract re-write agreed that nothing on day one would be assigned before noon. We go out of our way to find a way to reduce that to the FAR 117 bare bone minimum of 10 hours? Massive concession and completely uncalled for. That was flat out taking from reserves to fund other things and is completely bogus and that that reason alone I hope the TA gets voted down.
The other issue was long call length. While it was previously 12 hours and is going to 13, that can hardly be called a win either because you have to look at the realities of the long standing status quo prior. We always had the ability to black out communications for any 9 hour period we want to. The company union busting fantasy memo pretended to impose a fake fantasy 2 hour leash where we must be hot phone call back ready at all times 24 hours a day within that 2 hour window. Obviously that was bogus and pilots that obeyed the current contract would go illegal for the trip sometimes triggering an intimidation attempt PD/CPO drive-by from scheduling. What it sounds like we have now (assuming TA approval) is a hot 3 hour must call back window at all times. That is still a HUGE concession. The company even admitted it could run the operation on 16 hours in the vast majority of cases with no problem. That would have generated a 6 hour call back leash. So we give them 3. Really? Another huge concession used to fund little pet projects all across the contract from an issue that only existed primarilly because of the two reserve issues that we caved on to get the other gains in the first place.
Then there is the issue of CDO's, which I have a theoretically open mind to but would have to see the details first and am somewhat skeptical based on what I've seen so far. But even if the language there is a solid win, its only a win in mitigating the potential bad in something we allowed that created the potential bad in the first place. Hardly something worth funding from reserve concessions.
This sounds like reserves got thrown under the bus big time. For it to not even include full and immediate back pay for all the bogus and contractually illegal PD's with only the vague pinky promise of "we'll get them in the side letter phase" is simply stunning given the gravity of the other concessions embedded within.
Yes there are some nice positives sprinkled around, but most will likely only apply to certain rotations here or there occasionally. The concessions RSV's are having to shoulder to fund these other potentially positive parts are full time every day realities.
YES on MEMRAT.
NO on the TA.
JMHO based on what I've seen so far.
From the email we got, we dropped the ball BIG TIME with regards to those two things.
As it stands now (pre-TA) even the company's union busting unilateral fantasy contract re-write agreed that nothing on day one would be assigned before noon. We go out of our way to find a way to reduce that to the FAR 117 bare bone minimum of 10 hours? Massive concession and completely uncalled for. That was flat out taking from reserves to fund other things and is completely bogus and that that reason alone I hope the TA gets voted down.
The other issue was long call length. While it was previously 12 hours and is going to 13, that can hardly be called a win either because you have to look at the realities of the long standing status quo prior. We always had the ability to black out communications for any 9 hour period we want to. The company union busting fantasy memo pretended to impose a fake fantasy 2 hour leash where we must be hot phone call back ready at all times 24 hours a day within that 2 hour window. Obviously that was bogus and pilots that obeyed the current contract would go illegal for the trip sometimes triggering an intimidation attempt PD/CPO drive-by from scheduling. What it sounds like we have now (assuming TA approval) is a hot 3 hour must call back window at all times. That is still a HUGE concession. The company even admitted it could run the operation on 16 hours in the vast majority of cases with no problem. That would have generated a 6 hour call back leash. So we give them 3. Really? Another huge concession used to fund little pet projects all across the contract from an issue that only existed primarilly because of the two reserve issues that we caved on to get the other gains in the first place.
Then there is the issue of CDO's, which I have a theoretically open mind to but would have to see the details first and am somewhat skeptical based on what I've seen so far. But even if the language there is a solid win, its only a win in mitigating the potential bad in something we allowed that created the potential bad in the first place. Hardly something worth funding from reserve concessions.
This sounds like reserves got thrown under the bus big time. For it to not even include full and immediate back pay for all the bogus and contractually illegal PD's with only the vague pinky promise of "we'll get them in the side letter phase" is simply stunning given the gravity of the other concessions embedded within.
Yes there are some nice positives sprinkled around, but most will likely only apply to certain rotations here or there occasionally. The concessions RSV's are having to shoulder to fund these other potentially positive parts are full time every day realities.
YES on MEMRAT.
NO on the TA.
JMHO based on what I've seen so far.
05-18-2014, 05:00 PM
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05-18-2014, 05:01 PM
No longer cares
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Posts: 12,109
Why not, aren't some of those on JFK transcons? I saw your math, but the company could be factoring in the wh0re factor too. (more available pilots in base) You yourself said these thing will prolly go senior.
05-18-2014, 05:09 PM
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Posts: 1,898
Now that 10 hours is minimum, I'm sure the majority of CDO's would be more in the neighborhood of 8-9 hours. And one short leg back to base, not a 13 hour duty day with multiple legs or a transcon.
05-18-2014, 05:10 PM
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Posts: 2,642
Double post
Last edited by shiznit; 05-18-2014 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Double post
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