forgot to bid

So there's the problem.

"Hey we want 5.15 a day."
"Fine, we want CDOs and augmented transcons."

Now why would that be? My hypothesis is on the previous mentioned ATL-SFO-ATL route you have the exact same amount of aircraft block hours, legs and required trips of 29.5. Except one is a 3-day and one is a CDO.

My guess would be for the month with 29.5 trips x 15.45/TL/trip = 464 TL / LCW 75 hrs = 6.2 As required to cover that route for the month or 12.4 pilots total.

29.5 trips x 10.5/TL/trip = 310 hrs / LCW 75 hrs = 4.13 As and 4.13 Bs and 4.13 more Bs. Total 12.4 pilots.

But not hotel costs and fewer As, fewer A RES pilots required, etc. That's why I think it's cheaper over a month.

BTW I looked at one SFO overnight for the whole day, 28 different pilots from ATL, NYC, MSP, SEA, SLC to complete the 7 ATL flights in and 7 out.

CDOs to all of the hubs seems less complicated, and less complicated probably requires less coverage.

forgot to bid

To me, and this is just me and my wacky self, if there are protections for staffing with CDOs and augmented crews then I don't really see a problem with them.

I do not want to see staffing go down and in the case of augmented crews, if my hunch is right and you need fewer As but slightly more total pilots, I still don't like that. As = movement and money.

As to the DPA, I haven't heard a peep out of them for a while. But as a fair warning if this doesn't go to memorable rat, this will just give them a lifeline.

gloopy

That would suck slightly less. I still prefer noon as 10am, even with the 3pm lock in, still helps the company fly more with fewer pilots compared to noon, not to mention the 2 hour benefit to the pilot.

I still can't see how the 13 hour long call is legal without a rolling 3 hour leash. How did they get around the 10 hours prospective rest required by the FARs?

Dorfman

Theres an hour i will never get back. Carson is still the king of late night.

tsquare

I think it is safe to say that I am not a DPA supporter. I was also not a regional pilot. That being said, I do not need to stick my head in the oven to know it's hot. I don't think that "all those guys" were being unsafe, but I DO think there could have been a significant number that could fall into that category. I said "could" be. Busier airports, more delays, global warming, cats fighting dogs off of little kids... all these things to me are a harbinger of reduced risk tolerance, and I see no real need for it. Like ftb said in a post also, if there are significant protections in this deal I can live with it. 6 hours behind the door will work. But if I get delayed, and have 3 hours of "sleep", I guarantee you that I WILL call in fatigued. That is my personal ultimatum. That is unsafe, I do not care how much sleep you got the day before. Schedule with safety?

index

Translation- he's spot on.

shiznit

You're going to have to do better than "guess" to convince me.

ATL-SFO current:
5:30 x $220 = $1,210
5:30 x $150 = $825
(add 35% for bennies)
TOTAL $2,747

SFO-ATL
4:45 x $220 = $1,045
4:45 x $150 = $712
+35%
TOTAL $2,123

Logding/per diem (on a 17 hour layover):
$100 r/t limo
$300 two rooms
$126 for 28:45 hour of per diem x2
TOTAL $526

Grand total: $5,396

ATL-SFO-ATL augmented:
5:30 x $220 = $1,210
4:45 x $220 = $1,045
5:30 x $150 = $825
5:30 x $150 = $825
4:45 x $150 = $712
4:45 x $150 = $712
add 35%
TOTAL= $7,194
$84 add for 12:45 per diem x3

FC seat from ATL-SFO in July mid-week $1356 going $1500 returning.
DAL has an average of 12% operating margin (higher in premium but let's stay conservative) $2,856 x 12% = $343

Grand Total =$7,620 to operate as a Augment

$7,620-$5,296 = $2,325

Ain't no way the company will spend $2,325 per ATL-SFO round trip to augment just for augment's sake.

Because they aren't reducing a Captain (it still takes 1 to fly out and one to fly back).... It would be merely adding an FO and eliminating a Revenue FC seat.

This is the same as the company paying an FO to DH in a FC seat for the round trip. It does not make financial sense.

tsquare

Any more details from the meeting?

Check Essential

They apparently have clarification from the FAA. Prospective rest does not require acknowledgment. You are presumed to have been notified of the trip when they call and attempt to notify.

Denny Crane

In doing your math you are assuming the loss of credit time from doing a turn vs doing a 3 day, 30 hour layover, one leg each way transcon. In reality, how many of those do we have......I would hazard a guess that it's none. That trip would be a 2 day with no credit, the same as a turn.

Denny