Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-21-2014, 09:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
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05-21-2014, 09:08 AM
No longer cares
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05-21-2014, 09:09 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,388
I don't think this simplification is true, sailing. Pilot positions are based on CREDIT HOURS. Credit hours do NOT EQUAL block hours... based on them sure, but always more. And the company's goal is to reduce the disparity so that credit hours = block hours (no extra credit). Which means more productivity for us and more work for the same pay.
When a pilot's schedule is built, it is "full" at a certain CREDIT. When a pilot tries to pick up more flying, it is limited by CREDIT. This results in that pilot being unusable by company and another one must be hired and flown to handle the remaining block the first pilot didn't actually fly but got capped out by similar credit.
This entire discussion revolves around the company's ability to reduce CREDIT hours for the same block hours, perhaps in a couple ways. Less synthetic credit for a 30 hour layover; and maybe flying stuff for PAY NO CREDIT. Allowing the company to reduce credit, while still flying the same actual flights (block) results in fewer pilots and less $$ spent on them by Delta. Bad.
Every time you insist that manning is based on block hours, you lose sight of the entire crux of this costing decision, and where the nut-cutting of whether this is better for us or the company will happen; and you mislead the thought process of other pilots away from "truth".
In this case, I don't think you're probably doing it on purpose, I think you're just so used to saying that incorrect mantra you're maybe missing the critical piece here.
If Delta can fly 100 block hours on certain CREDIT COSTLY routes for say 200 credit hours currently, but by adding split duty and CDOs and some targeted 3 man ops they can operate those routes for a hard-time block of 150, then it's a win for them, and a LOSS FOR US.
Didn't throw in any example, just want you to think on and consider the credit vs. block argument and that Delta's continuing mission is always to reduce credit to equal block. I'm following your posts on this, much useful info, hoping you'll factor this critical and driving goal of Delta into your considerations.
Thx
When a pilot's schedule is built, it is "full" at a certain CREDIT. When a pilot tries to pick up more flying, it is limited by CREDIT. This results in that pilot being unusable by company and another one must be hired and flown to handle the remaining block the first pilot didn't actually fly but got capped out by similar credit.
This entire discussion revolves around the company's ability to reduce CREDIT hours for the same block hours, perhaps in a couple ways. Less synthetic credit for a 30 hour layover; and maybe flying stuff for PAY NO CREDIT. Allowing the company to reduce credit, while still flying the same actual flights (block) results in fewer pilots and less $$ spent on them by Delta. Bad.
Every time you insist that manning is based on block hours, you lose sight of the entire crux of this costing decision, and where the nut-cutting of whether this is better for us or the company will happen; and you mislead the thought process of other pilots away from "truth".
In this case, I don't think you're probably doing it on purpose, I think you're just so used to saying that incorrect mantra you're maybe missing the critical piece here.
If Delta can fly 100 block hours on certain CREDIT COSTLY routes for say 200 credit hours currently, but by adding split duty and CDOs and some targeted 3 man ops they can operate those routes for a hard-time block of 150, then it's a win for them, and a LOSS FOR US.
Didn't throw in any example, just want you to think on and consider the credit vs. block argument and that Delta's continuing mission is always to reduce credit to equal block. I'm following your posts on this, much useful info, hoping you'll factor this critical and driving goal of Delta into your considerations.
Thx
05-21-2014, 09:14 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Taxi Driver
Posts: 411
Most of those went away with 117 back in January when the hours went to 9. They only made sense as already discussed in markets with very limited service. Layovers will always be cheaper unless the crew has to be left there more then a day.
In addition the company does not generally use the 17 757's with BE seats in tourist markets. I don't overall see this as much of a issue.
In addition the company does not generally use the 17 757's with BE seats in tourist markets. I don't overall see this as much of a issue.
05-21-2014, 09:15 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Nothing wrong with that.....
05-21-2014, 09:16 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"
I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.
Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.
You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)
Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.
You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.
New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.
05-21-2014, 09:17 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
How so? I think you're incorrect on this one.
Here's my math:
LAX-LHR = 10:35
LHR-LAX = 11:20
total of 21:55 block x 3 pilots
ATL-LHR = 8:35
LHR-ATL = 9:30
total of 18:05 x 3 pilots
Delta pilots will gain 3:05 x 3 x 31 = 286:45 of flying time each month. That's equivalent to 3.58 MORE pilots needed.
That is a GOOD thing for Delta pilots.
"Not good. Not good at all".... for Virgin pilots!
Here's my math:
LAX-LHR = 10:35
LHR-LAX = 11:20
total of 21:55 block x 3 pilots
ATL-LHR = 8:35
LHR-ATL = 9:30
total of 18:05 x 3 pilots
Delta pilots will gain 3:05 x 3 x 31 = 286:45 of flying time each month. That's equivalent to 3.58 MORE pilots needed.
That is a GOOD thing for Delta pilots.
"Not good. Not good at all".... for Virgin pilots!
05-21-2014, 09:21 AM
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
Discussing split duty now.
05-21-2014, 09:22 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Sailing, this doesn't make any sense. The company wouldn't want it if it didn't benefit them. I'm tired of the old "we don't see any issues" mantra from ALPA, like sick leave verification, followed by unintended consequences biting us in the butt. We have to stop the cycle of voting yes on something without really knowing what it means only to find out later that it sucks.
Just say no to CDO.
sorry for the rant
05-21-2014, 09:22 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
Who knows man?
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"
I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.
Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.
You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)
Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.
You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.
New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"
I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.
Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.
You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)
Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.
You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.
New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.
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