Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-21-2014, 09:23 AM
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05-21-2014, 09:23 AM
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Thanks for the update.
05-21-2014, 09:27 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Who knows man?
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"
I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.
Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.
You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)
Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.
You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.
New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.
I used to love reading this thread but now it seems EVERY, and I do mean every change to anything we do as a company is met by a chorus of middle school girls screaming, "oh maaa gaaawd! they di'dunt!"
I can hear the black helicopters hovering this thread constantly these days.
Seems like a given, the LA thing, now that we have a JV and own wait what is it again? Ah yes, 49% of the company.
You older guys and '07-10 hire guys with paranoia/chip on shoulder/nostalgia problems need to live in the now. (full disclosure: I'm an 07 hire)
Not everything our company does is an Orwellian plot to get less pilots on property, steal from us, kick your dog or steal your wife. Take things as they are and not as you think they would have been with Leo at the helm or others.
You will live longer, and by God probably spend less time on message boards.
New and different flying is a good thing for us. Especially when the block hour change is nearly double for Delta guys. Period. End of story, no black helicopters coming to take your seats on the 330 or ER in ATL.
Awesome post sir.
Disclaimer: I am in the crashpad... nothing on TV... and like Zack Mayonaisssse, "I got nowhere else to go"
05-21-2014, 09:27 AM
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
I was referring to the dude you were quoting. No issue with your statement(s) whatsoever.
05-21-2014, 09:27 AM
No longer cares
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Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
05-21-2014, 09:29 AM
Straight QOL, homie
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Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
So why are the "usual suspects" not whipping up support for the TA?
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they've been told early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street cred" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA! Trust us!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they've been told early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street cred" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA! Trust us!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
05-21-2014, 09:30 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
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Posts: 2,642
Your entire argument here is based on questionable assumption that the decision is made on the cost of flying X block hours with 4 pilots vs. 3, and the ancillary trip costs for that route.
This is probably NOT the case. In fact there is a massive hidden gain by the company in just reducing overall pilots. For most businesses, the cost of an employee is almost 50% or more than their salary, when you account for taxes/retirement/insurance/admin-overhead. Every pilot you reduce results in HUGE gains to the company that you are not costing out when you look at this as a "can they fly ATL-SFO turns cheaper with 4 or 3?". Add in the synergistic gains of the company staying marginally away from what may in fact turn out to be the critical limiting factor soon, ability to hire and train pilots to fill positions, the whole picture changes.
You can see that the actual costs to fly/pay for any particular routes may not in fact be the critical factor or goal at all! In fact there may be some ratio of increased per/pilot cost increase vs. pilot's reduced that is better for the company.
Every time someone tries to sell me on how a reduced overall number of pilots needed will be better for me... I know they're absolutely not on MY side. And will probably be just fine with me stagnating at the bottom for another 5 years.
ps. good answer from you up above, I'll have to digest some of that a bit. Lots of good thoughts and ideas on what the company MAY be after here.
This is probably NOT the case. In fact there is a massive hidden gain by the company in just reducing overall pilots. For most businesses, the cost of an employee is almost 50% or more than their salary, when you account for taxes/retirement/insurance/admin-overhead. Every pilot you reduce results in HUGE gains to the company that you are not costing out when you look at this as a "can they fly ATL-SFO turns cheaper with 4 or 3?". Add in the synergistic gains of the company staying marginally away from what may in fact turn out to be the critical limiting factor soon, ability to hire and train pilots to fill positions, the whole picture changes.
You can see that the actual costs to fly/pay for any particular routes may not in fact be the critical factor or goal at all! In fact there may be some ratio of increased per/pilot cost increase vs. pilot's reduced that is better for the company.
Every time someone tries to sell me on how a reduced overall number of pilots needed will be better for me... I know they're absolutely not on MY side. And will probably be just fine with me stagnating at the bottom for another 5 years.
ps. good answer from you up above, I'll have to digest some of that a bit. Lots of good thoughts and ideas on what the company MAY be after here.
For every leg you operate with three pilots getting paid, that is more costly than flying it with two pilots getting paid.
Add in the 38-50% benefits, and the cost differential gets even more expensive.
Since when did a JFK-LAX take 4 pilots?
The company absolutely would not benefit by paying a third pilot to fly from JFK-LAX to be in a rest seat most of the time, and removing a lie-flat from saleable inventory.
It takes two pilots to fly that leg right now and have every lie-flat for sale, period.
05-21-2014, 09:34 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
So why are the "usual suspects" not whipping up support for the TA?
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they all know early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street creed" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they all know early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street creed" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
05-21-2014, 09:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
So why are the "usual suspects" not whipping up support for the TA?
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they've been told early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street cred" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA! Trust us!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
The idealist in me wants to think it's because they've seen the product, and it's so ludicrous they've brushed off their orders and have become mutineers!
The cynic in me suspects they've been told early polling of the reps indicates this is a done deal, with no chance of Memrat. Now they have been instructed to show only lukewarm support or outright opposition in order to have some "street cred" next time they're ordered to sell C15. "No, we don't always push the DALPA line! Remember, we were against the 117 TA! Trust us!"
No way this thing fails or goes to memrat. Either of those outcomes would grievously weaken MD. He wouldn't have put it before the MEC unless he knew it would pass.
05-21-2014, 09:51 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 737A
Posts: 1,890
I understand the anti-cdo angst coming from guys that only experienced them under RJ operator scheduling, but I also sense a lot of feigned outrage coming from DPA supporters looking for something to be angry about. Anybody that worked in the DC-9 world at NWA knows d@mn good and well that those trips were extremely popular and very rarely ended up in open time. I don't have actual data, but I know that in every DC-9 base there were a lot of senior guys that flew nothing else. In 4 years on the nine I ended up flying one. To claim all those guys flying those trips for all those years were being unsafe is just plain silly.
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