Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-23-2014, 07:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,356
Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
Yes and Yes! This, after all, is the internet age. No matter how great an idea(s) 15 or so guys have at an LEC meeting, it(they) can be easily vetted by the entire pilot group via a one week poll/vote on the interweb.
There is virtually no excuse, in this day and age, for something as onerous as SDPs to be sprung on the pilot group at the nth hour. (We are very lucky that we dodged this bullet.)
Again, how this made it to the level it did, and how our chairman was able to sign an email announcing how great this TA was (that included these SDPs), is beyond unbelievable.
Is our MEC really that out of touch? (I intend to find out.)
I do not have great hope for 2015.
P.S. I still feel strongly that a TA that changes so many of our pay/work rules should be an automatic memrat.
There is virtually no excuse, in this day and age, for something as onerous as SDPs to be sprung on the pilot group at the nth hour. (We are very lucky that we dodged this bullet.)
Again, how this made it to the level it did, and how our chairman was able to sign an email announcing how great this TA was (that included these SDPs), is beyond unbelievable.
Is our MEC really that out of touch? (I intend to find out.)
I do not have great hope for 2015.
P.S. I still feel strongly that a TA that changes so many of our pay/work rules should be an automatic memrat.
The MEC was not out of touch. They had a list of items where there was a lot of feedback pilots wanted improved. At the very top of the list was a higher daily min and getting rid of 30 hour layovers. CDO's were part of a option to put a package together to achieve that. There were a lot of former NW pilots who flew and liked the trips and that feedback went to the MEC via reps in those bases. I just talked with a NW guy who is mad they removed them.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
05-23-2014, 07:51 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,356
Originally Posted by Big E 757
When RA told you point blank that he was not here to facilitate a merger, did you believe him then too? I would consider anything regarding future merger plans "inside information" and thus, a big no-no to discuss with employees and LCA's.
05-23-2014, 08:00 AM
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The MEC was not out of touch. They had a list of items where there was a lot of feedback pilots wanted improved. At the very top of the list was a higher daily min and getting rid of 30 hour layovers. CDO's were part of a option to put a package together to achieve that. There were a lot of former NW pilots who flew and liked the trips and that feedback went to the MEC via reps in those bases. I just talked with a NW guy who is mad they removed them.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
05-23-2014, 08:04 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: Kickin’ Back
Posts: 6,971
Originally Posted by FlyingSig
PWA 5 E 1 d
at a station (at or away from base) at which the pilot is scheduled for block-in to block-out time of more than five hours (upon the pilot’s request).
Exception: If travel time to a co-terminal is part of the scheduled block-in to block- out time, the pilot will be provided lodging (upon his request) if the total ground time is more than the sum of five hours plus the ground travel time under Section 8 B. 3.
at a station (at or away from base) at which the pilot is scheduled for block-in to block-out time of more than five hours (upon the pilot’s request).
Exception: If travel time to a co-terminal is part of the scheduled block-in to block- out time, the pilot will be provided lodging (upon his request) if the total ground time is more than the sum of five hours plus the ground travel time under Section 8 B. 3.
Denny
05-23-2014, 08:11 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: B744 F/O
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The MEC was not out of touch. They had a list of items where there was a lot of feedback pilots wanted improved. At the very top of the list was a higher daily min and getting rid of 30 hour layovers. CDO's were part of a option to put a package together to achieve that. There were a lot of former NW pilots who flew and liked the trips and that feedback went to the MEC via reps in those bases. I just talked with a NW guy who is mad they removed them.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
(Insert graphic of BS flag going up). At the top of the list is pay rates back to pre bankruptcy levels. Which reminds me, the mantra during bankruptcy was, give up wages because that's the easiest to get back.
Tr
05-23-2014, 08:28 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,356
Originally Posted by trlaketige
(Insert graphic of BS flag going up). At the top of the list is pay rates back to pre bankruptcy levels. Which reminds me, the mantra during bankruptcy was, give up wages because that's the easiest to get back.
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05-23-2014, 08:30 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Scoop
That is one way to look at it. Another way is that we, the Delta Pilot group, just received an important message on the value of remaining engaged.
And perhaps even more importantly, we re-emphasized the value and importance of seeking pilot input on important issues. The more potentially controversial and/or higher the impact to the Pilot group as a whole the more important pilot input is.
This looks like the union was about to make a big mistake, unwitting or not. Our guys are smart enough to learn from this.
Scoop
And perhaps even more importantly, we re-emphasized the value and importance of seeking pilot input on important issues. The more potentially controversial and/or higher the impact to the Pilot group as a whole the more important pilot input is.
This looks like the union was about to make a big mistake, unwitting or not. Our guys are smart enough to learn from this.
Scoop
If each and every one of us takes the time to write on call our reps on C2015 we will hit the grand slam we deserve.
Let's not get lazy.
05-23-2014, 08:35 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The MEC was not out of touch. They had a list of items where there was a lot of feedback pilots wanted improved. At the very top of the list was a higher daily min and getting rid of 30 hour layovers. CDO's were part of a option to put a package together to achieve that. There were a lot of former NW pilots who flew and liked the trips and that feedback went to the MEC via reps in those bases. I just talked with a NW guy who is mad they removed them.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
When CDO's went public it became obvious that overall the pilot group by a substantial margin did not want them and they were removed. The cost to the company to fly a CDO under the TA was going to be so high they would have been the choice of last resort anyway so it was not hard to get the company to agree to the change.
5:15 per day is huge and is going to improve all pilots Schedules. I had a international guy tell me it did nothing for him. He flies KEF and DUB a lot. I pointed out that a 3 day KEF now pays 15:45 and the 4 day Dublins now pay 21.
There is however always a downside to work rule changes. When 5:15 is programmed into the computer I suspect we are going to see more longer trips to generate minimum credit. As a commuter that's fine but guys who live in base may not like it. Watch for whining when the new trip mix shows up.
While the MEC might not have "been out of touch" they did make a huge flawed leap of logic. "We don't want so many 30 hour layovers" does not mean that we want backside of the clock/no rest kind of flying. They made that decision (apparently) based on a very vocal minority. So there is one fNWA guy that is pizzed that they are gone. I can give you the names of about fifty that are ecstatic they are gone. (Insert Spock quote here) The MEC should have known that this would be a lightning rod kind of issue, and should have polled the group. I can see where some think they are out of touch, because those of us that actually fly the line with regularity know what fatigue is on an ongoing basis. Flying a trip or two each month doesn't really qualify you to make a decision that affects guys that fly a full month, because the cumulative effects of those rotations is simply not the same.
The last part of your post is interesting too. If it results in longer trips, this might be the one time in all of history where other bases are happy when ATL is not. NYC and DTW are heavy commuter bases, and there will probably be a lot of guys that will like longer trips in those bases. So for once, the world might not revolve around Peach Tree City residents. (No offense to those of you that live there.. it is a lovely place) But I see no downside in longer trips. What WILL be interesting is to see if international remains as senior as it is now....
05-23-2014, 08:39 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by gzsg
Good points all.
If each and every one of us takes the time to write on call our reps on C2015 we will hit the grand slam we deserve.
Let's not get lazy.
If each and every one of us takes the time to write on call our reps on C2015 we will hit the grand slam we deserve.
Let's not get lazy.
05-23-2014, 08:48 AM
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by trlaketige
(Insert graphic of BS flag going up). At the top of the list is pay rates back to pre bankruptcy levels. Which reminds me, the mantra during bankruptcy was, give up wages because that's the easiest to get back.
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