EdGrimley

A good point. I believe there are multiple "gotchas" to the new rules being proposed. The company has a team that looks at these things over a long period of time (longer than the NC). The company makes the first offer anchoring everything to what they are after.

More food for thought, those flying international that feel insulated from CDO's right now...if banding occurs in the future (and it likely will to reduce training footprint), those same guys may choose to fly domestic for the same pay but then run into CDO's.

Anything that reduces safety or bodies required should be quickly rejected.

If a proposal doesn't pass the sniff test and the "gains" are based upon sorta, kinda, maybe and surgically extracting best case scenarios are used (as some within our union have been known to offer up to get to "yes")....these type of offers should be rejected forthright.

Timbo

Scoop, the "rush" is getting our MEC to pass this prior to sending the language to the pilot group to examine. There is no hurry. I say we all get to look at it for at least a month, then provide input to our LEC, then we get membership ratification...30-60 days from now.

tsquare

The concept of a "cap" is so far out of the barn at this point that Secretariat couldn't catch it..... that horse ain't ever coming back.

Timbo

Actually, FAR 117 just imposed a "Cap"....only 100 hours in 28 days now.

There are many, many trips still in our open time now, that under the previous "120 hours in 30 days" rule, would have been swapped/White slipped an gone by now.

I've heard several senior 777 F/O's crying about it, and some LCA's as well, seems they just took a 20hr. per month pay cut. And those extra 20 hours were usually paid at G/S rates, i.e. they took a 40 hr. per month pay cut from the 'old rules'.

tsquare

Ain't gonna happen. Wouldn't ever pass a memory rat. It is just as likely that a pilot will fly less if he gets a 25% pay raise. Anybody that says that is lying thru their teeth. Everybody has become accustomed to flying 80 or 85 or 90+ hours... whatever their personal equilibrium is, and no amount of pay increase will change that.

And you're right, the PWA doesn't really limit us. FARs do, and that's what most pilots want.

tsquare

+717..........

tsquare

True dat. Hey did you see my message that I sailed with one of your compadres this weekend? Matt McD... You really outta come out sailing a real boat sometime. Cuba Libres all around! Sorry I will miss the regatta this weekend. I do want to get out on a Hobie sometime though

Denny Crane

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think you are looking at this wrong. I think you need to look at block hours. Whether two pilots are doing a turn or laying over then returning, it's the same amount of block hours. If you now have an augmented flight you are adding the block hours for the third pilot to a trip two pilots can do with a layover.

It seems to me the company would be increasing block hours by adding the second FO and would only be saving the cost of two hotel rooms for the two man crew that would normally be laying over.

Denny



Edit: Having reread your post, I see what you are talking about. Never mind...

Timbo

Did you go out on one of Matt's boats, or did he go out on yours?

And was Gina there? And was Rum involved?

I'm doing the F16 Worlds in Newport in June, on one of Matt's new boats. Should be quite a party!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tkE8VzoymU

tsquare

He was out with us on Moving Party... the Hobie 33. We had the Indian River Yacht Club regatta this last weekend. No, Gina wasn't there. Should I be upset about that? And yes there was rum on the boat (there always is) but beer was the beverage du jour. The wind was horrid. 20+ knots, and the spinnaker was a real handful. even with the 135 headsail the boat was way overpowered. But we had a great time anyway. Come with us some Wednesday night.

Did I mention there will be rum on the boat?