He did. I will say that I've read the ALPA Policy on Split Duty Periods, which is their independently derived set of rules under which these should be scheduled. What's in this TA matches that, with the exception that the ALPA Policy only went down to four hours' sleep opportunity, not three.

No, because now my decision is based on language that I can put my fingers on. CE said that was given to them by Donatelli at the meeting. Close enough for jazz. I have never been a one issue voter before. I am now. You should be ecstatic because now I am as angry as you and PD.

Unfortunately my friend, that doesn't matter. Neither of us have ever seen the MEC send one back. There's always a first, but history is not on our side.

"Should be scheduled" "Only went down to four" Those are both pie in the sky phrases. Worst case is what you should plan for when you are asking pilots to sacrifice proper rest for this nonsense. They are going to be lucky if they get 4 hours. Throw in weather or anything else, and they will be better off to sleep on the jet. That sucks Alan. It just plain sucks.

Science says much more regarding sleep and rest, and it is completely thrown out the window with this TA.

The trouble with that concurrence is that the line pilot will no nothing about it until the bid package comes out.

Stop talking about costing and other stuff like that. You are asking pilots to sacrifice their health for this. I don't give a **** what this costs . The only fact that matters is safety and the health of our pilots. We already know that the company will go to 5:15. There's your baseline right there, and SDPs don't make up that cost... or do they?

Not exactly.. All that has to happen is the open time has to go through trip coverage. Now, say you do the typical Atl reroute because your inbound is late, they can keep you rerouted the whole time because none of that stuff was "known" more than 14 hours.

And then of course you get into "when was it known." We get rerouted at least once a trip these days, are we gonna investigate every aspect of every reroute to see when it was "known?" Really?

That being said, I realize it is better than what we have.. That is not the sticking point.. It is the CDO abomination (and how we ended up with it in the first place) that has my feathers ruffled. I can't believe reps are actually using the excuse that "guys don't sleep on international either" as an excuse to add another pos to our contract?

As you say there are many many rotations that will be affected by the ADG increase, and they will be offset by SDPs... the logical conclusion is that there are a ****load of SDPs that we are facing. OR... that 7:30 for the SDP really isn't all that much to the company, which then means the 5:15 isn't that much. Which is it? In the same post you said it will save the company pilots and cost them 114 pilots... Which is it?

$40 million is pocket change. We are a $30 billion enterprise.

Fixed that quote for you.

t-
Just my opinion and gut feeling but I don't think too many pilots will ever be forced to fly these. They are going to be bid by the senior guys and if one drops into open time it will go to a white slip. Obviously though, there will be some people who get one that didn't want it.

Also-
it was pretty clear from the discussion that this was not sprung on the MEC out of nowhere. They have received requests and lots of input from pilots who wanted to have these SDP trips in the bid package.
Obviously a significant number of guys WANT these trips. Mostly FNWA who had experience flying them at mainline. How many exactly, I have no idea.

Regarding the 2+15 exception -- that was discussed and the consensus seemed to be that it would only be allowed if the trip in question was particularly desirable and the pilots wanted it. ie= a rest break significantly longer than the minimum, a nice hotel very close to the airport, desirable sign in time, etc,. etc. If all those factors were present and the only thing stopping the company from scheduling it was the block was 2+07, then the MEC would probably OK it.

The comparison to SA flying is a total non sequitur, because you KNOW that you are going to get a certain amount of rest on those flights. This is a moving target, and a ton of that is out of your control. How long it will take the pax to get off the airplane, putting it to bed, getting out of the airport, waiting for the hotel van (dedicated to be there within 15 minutes, right... that's a huge percentage of your opportunity gone right there if it takes 15 minutes.) checking into the hotel, getting to your room.. and finally, face planting on the bed. Getting up in the morning in time to catch the van.... etc etc etc etc... Not even close to SA flying.