Very well said! Think back to the number of times these things end up going in the pilots favor? They end up much different than what was discussed in negotiations or even sold by the NC/MEC. The company can and will exploit these open ended, poorly written agreements on line at a time. Then we can say "didn't see that coming" and "we'll get em next time"....when the company has what they want and is no longer interested in "constructive engagement".

Hear hear!...

This is ALPA's costing of this. I'm betting Ed and company (who actually build the schedules and know what they intend to do going forward) may have there own costing with much different results. I believe they are extremely good at what they do and their best interests don't align with ours with respect to this.

The CDO's alone are a NO from me.

Language in other areas (augmentation) need to be narrowed down too in an effort to prevent the "we don't think they would do that...." from biting us in the butt. I'm for waiting until the next contract openers and stop this mess from seeing the light of day.

That's great...until we get another Moak for MEC Chairman.

Absolutely.

"We don't think they'll do that" is code for "bend over, we're getting schooled again."

Well then ................ that will obviously never happen. :rolleyes:

Scoop

Thanks for the update.

Regarding the >14 for a leg though, are we 100% sure this applies to all legs? What if a leg departs ATL 11:00 from now, but the return leg departs STL 14:01 from now. How do we cover that return leg when there isn't a pilot there to originate? If a DH is built, suddenly that's less than 14 hours as well. Hmmm.

What about any return flight from an out station? Are we sure the outblund flight that's part of a reroute will become a WS/GS coverage trip on the way back? If so, how does the rerouted pilot get back? I have a hard time believing the company will DH a crew to get them while they DH back especially after what would have been legal rest. What about hub-to-non-hub-to-other-non-hub legs? It really seems like there will be legs that are known outside of 14 hours that never go through the coverage process.

If they are talking about originators from a hub, I wouldn't expect much attempt for pushing the limits and perhaps good software could monitor things. But I don't see strict adherence for non hub return flights. My guess is the company won't ever put that up for WS/GS and will always use the originally rerouted pilots and if we grieve it they will claim that was the intent all along and it would be unreasonable to expect every single >14 leg to go out to the slip system especially when that would generate additional double crew DH credits.

Bringing Regional flying (work rules, but not airplanes) to Delta airlines one TA at a time. Great legacy our union is leaving for all future Delta pilots. "Schedule with Safety!"

I don't think that's a fair comment. We made great strides under Moak regardless of what you believe in your own little world. That being said, the problem with this MEC scheduling chairman having to buy into the company's wanting to go to 2+15 is that it will happen for the following month's bid period, and we line dogs will have no input to that process. The same MEC guys, whose work I am greatly appreciative of, will have little to no exposure to those rotations on a continuing basis, therefore they do not KNOW how they affect those doing them. Am I pessimistic about these things, You bet your A$$ I am. From a personal perspective, I will not be able to safely operate an airplane on 3 hours "sleep". Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's got to know his limitations" I know mine. This exceeds them by a long distance. So what I want to know is how am I going to be protected from repercussions of calling in fatigued? Why is this provision in there? Will the company want 3+00 in section 6? Why wouldn't they? IOW, we are handing them negotiations fodder to have to defend in the upcoming contract.

In all fairness, a LOT of the pilots I speak with ask for more productive trips. You have to consider what that might mean. The company probably said "OK, but NFW are we paying you 5:15 to sit around on those 30-hour layovers". Which probably led to the solution of breaking some of the trips out of rotations as SDP's.

I'm guessing that the genesis.

One important question about how ADG's might affect non SDP trips is whether it will be applied to each day, or the entire rotation. If it's day by day, the company could not afford to have us fly < 5:15 on the first and last days. Adios commutable trips.

So, since I have no language on the ADG's... Imagine a 3 day trip blocked at 4:15/6:15/4:15. Does it pay:

1) 5:15/6:15/5:15, i.e. 16:45
or
2) the greater of block or 5:15 * 3, i.e. 15:45 > 14:45, i.e. 15:45?